XPost: can.politics, can.rec.hunting, can.talk.guns
XPost: kingston.general, talk.politics.guns, van.general
From: klunk@theothershoe.org
"Larry" wrote in message
news:NWVxg.49469$Uy1.38520@read1.cgocable.net...
>
> "klunk" wrote in message
> news:jXjxg.234463$IK3.187624@pd7tw1no...
>>
>> "Larry" wrote in message
>> news:Pshxg.85390$hp.40853@read2.cgocable.net...
>>>
>>>>actually your guns, along with all other guns are either actually used
>>>>in commiting crimes or they can potentially become crime-enabling
>>>>weapons... so, by tracking all guns, we (as a society - try not to
>>>>forget we're all in this together) are more capable of managing a
>>>>problem that is insanely out of control....
>>>
>
> Yes, you will be able to track my registered guns, but what about the
> criminals that don't register theirs? How is registration going to help
> us? Why not put that money where it will do some good, getting criminals
> and illegal guns off the street?
i am always intrigued by the circuitious nature of the discussions i have
with loony-toon-gun-loons... and it seems because i've gone round the bend
often enough that i'm spotting what seems to be the beginning of the circle
before it starts into a whirlpool circling down a drain... i guess it does
no good that your questions have been answered... you'll still ask them
again... over and over and over and over and over again...
what about the criminals who don't?... what about them?
how will registration help you?... by immediately clearing you of suspicion
if your gun is suspected of involvement in foul play.
why not put that money where it will do some good?... it already is.
> > I see... you support various costly initiatives to ensure safe and
> > responsible firearms use yet you think only the registry is expensive
> > and does nothing to deal with the growing problem of violent crime.....
> > hmmmm.... AND you claim "objectivity".....?!?!?!?
>
> What costly initiatives? If by that you mean the idea of putting more
> police on the streets, and making sure the real criminals actually get
> punished, and getting guns out of hands that shouldn't have them, that
> money would come from the millions wasted on this registry, that only
> tells the cops what guns law abiding citizens have.
> Plus, as I've said, everyone has to renew FAC every five years; without an
> FAC, a person can't own or purchase a gun, nor purchase ammunition. Thus,
> when the police go on a call, with a click of a mouse they will know if
> firearms are at the residence because the FAC would show up. But, if no
> FAC is on file for the person, and they illegally have guns, what benefit
> then is the registry? None.
> So, police know ahead of time if guns are suppose to be present on a call
> because of the FAC, only licensed people can purchase/own guns and ammo;
> even with the registry, there is no way for the police to know for sure if
> guns will be involved on any call; criminals won't register guns anyway;
> and the aforementioned safeguards are already in place so there's no
> additional cost.
so... some things are costly because you don't agree with them and others
are not because you do....
> All that money being wasted could get criminals and illegal guns off the
> streets.
> Should that not be our prime objective?
of course, so you should stop wasting public time and money with your
childish resistance and become a responsible citizen by offering up your
assistance with this issue.
>>yes.... the same old crap... with no prooooooof, you say?
>> hmmmmmmm..... i must be watching a different channel,
>> 'cause the plotline on my soap has been the loony-toon-gun-loons crooning
>> the same ol' tune... btw... when are you going to start calling me a
>> liar?
>> yes... you got off your ass to search for proof you say.... hmmmm.... and
>> what proof was that....?..... a couple of grumps grumbling.... hmmmm....
>> members of the gun-loon-lobby, perhaps.... even retired policemen who
>> didn't know the registry applied to them and that they probably wouldn't
>> even know how to turn on their computer, much less understand complex
>> mathematics utilized to determine criminal behaviour patterns...
>
> We haven't seen anything from you at all that proves registration works,
actually... whether it is working or not has not been my argument... only
whether it is a justifiable element within our crime-fighting repertoire...
and none of you have EVER addressed this... nor have we seen any proof that
registration does not work... only that it's expensive... considering how
much we've just paid to bring Canadian refugees back from the mideast...
which, btw... the CONs don't want ot admit how much actual $ were spent....
i'd say the registry is pretty damned cheap for what it does.
> only the same old crap. You people said the police force is all in favour
> of the registry, but have not backed that up. And when I produced evidence
> that in fact, the very people you say support it, people who know because
> they're out there on the front lines, don't support the registry and you
> cry it's only a few retired incompetent cops.
> In an earlier post, I even posted a number of chiefs saying they have
> changed their mind, and are no longer in favour of the registry because it
> doesn't, nor will it ever work.
> Well, here are some cops that aren't retired, or incompetent. They are
> high rank, and/or seasoned officers.
> Can you please post the proof you say you have, rather than just resorting
> to name calling. You made the claim that cops, and especially the chiefs,
> supported it, show me.
> I particularly like this first one, chief telling his officer to not use
> the registry, but also not speak out against it or he would be fired!!!!
> WOW.
>
> SOURCE: MP Garry Breitkreuz's News Release dated December 15, 2005 - Name
> withheld at the officer's request
>TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO: "In the most immediate sense, >
>PRESIDENT OF THE CALGARY POLICE ASSOCIATION:
> WINNIPEG POLICE ASSOCIATION: Loren Schinkel of the Winnipeg Police
> CANADIAN CRIME VICTIM FOUNDATION: Joe Wamback, of the Canadian
> A.B.J. (BEN) BEATTY: 23-YEAR VETERAN OF THE ONTARIO PROVINCIAL DENIS COTE,
> PRESIDENT OF THE QUEBEC MUNICIPAL POLICE JOHN GAYDER, SERVING POLICE
> OFFICER IN ONTARIO - LETTER TO 17-YEAR VETERAN OF THE YORK REGIONAL POLICE
> FORCE: The streets
hmmm.... after sifting through all that crap... i found 8 different officers
identified... hmmmm... if some sort of dissent existed on any scale amongst
the force over the justifications for the registry; first of all, you'd be
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