XPost: can.politics, can.rec.hunting, can.talk.guns   
   XPost: kingston.general, talk.politics.guns, van.general   
   From: @   
      
   Are you ignoring this post I sent a couple of days ago kluck?   
   You made the claim of being able to prove the registry has helped fighting   
   crime, where is that proof you have?   
   I show you proof the police are saying the registry is ineffective and   
   hasn't aided at all investigating or solving crime, or getting criminals or   
   illegal guns off the streets, and all you do is resort to name calling, and   
   dispute these testimonies by saying they are from retired, incompetent cops.   
   Well, none of the following are retired, incompetent cops, but are chiefs   
   and seasoned lawmen, who are out there every day on the front lines. And it   
   isn't just a few, I have pages of them from all across Canada.   
   So, by your reactions to the proof I provide, as that of a sixth grader   
   throwing a temper tantrum, sputtering the same old repeats "they don't   
   count", without posting the proof you say undeniably shows this useless   
   registry is effective, leads us to the conclusion you do not have any   
   evidence of support for the registry.   
   Instead of your childish antics, please show us evidence that supports your   
   claim we need to sink millions more into this registry.   
      
      
   "Larry"  wrote in message   
   news:NWVxg.49469$Uy1.38520@read1.cgocable.net...   
   >   
   > "klunk"  wrote in message   
   > news:jXjxg.234463$IK3.187624@pd7tw1no...   
   >>   
   >> "Larry"  wrote in message   
   >> news:Pshxg.85390$hp.40853@read2.cgocable.net...   
   >>>    
   >>>>actually your guns, along with all other guns are either actually used   
   >>>>in commiting crimes or they can potentially become crime-enabling   
   >>>>weapons... so, by tracking all guns, we (as a society - try not to   
   >>>>forget we're all in this together) are more capable of managing a   
   >>>>problem that is insanely out of control....   
   >>>   
   >   
   > Yes, you will be able to track my registered guns, but what about the   
   > criminals that don't register theirs?  How is registration going to help   
   > us? Why not put that money where it will do some good, getting criminals   
   > and illegal guns off the street?   
   >   
   > > I see... you support various costly initiatives to ensure safe and   
   > > responsible firearms use yet you think only the registry is expensive   
   > > and does nothing to deal with the growing problem of violent crime.....   
   > > hmmmm.... AND you claim "objectivity".....?!?!?!?   
   >   
   > What costly initiatives? If by that you mean the idea of putting more   
   > police on the streets, and making sure the real criminals actually get   
   > punished, and getting guns out of hands that shouldn't have them, that   
   > money would come from the millions wasted on this registry, that only   
   > tells the cops what guns law abiding citizens have.   
   > Plus, as I've said, everyone has to renew FAC every five years; without an   
   > FAC, a person can't own or purchase a gun, nor purchase ammunition. Thus,   
   > when the police go on a call, with a click of a mouse they will know if   
   > firearms are at the residence because the FAC would show up. But, if no   
   > FAC is on file for the person, and they illegally have guns, what benefit   
   > then is the registry? None.   
   > So, police know ahead of time if guns are suppose to be present on a call   
   > because of the FAC, only licensed people can purchase/own guns and ammo;   
   > even with the registry, there is no way for the police to know for sure if   
   > guns will be involved on any call; criminals won't register guns anyway;   
   > and the aforementioned safeguards are already in place so there's no   
   > additional cost.   
   > All that money being wasted could get criminals and illegal guns off the   
   > streets.   
   > Should that not be our prime objective?   
   >   
   >>yes.... the same old crap... with no prooooooof, you say?   
   >> hmmmmmmm..... i must be watching a different channel,   
   >> 'cause the plotline on my soap has been the loony-toon-gun-loons crooning   
   >> the same ol' tune... btw... when are you going to start calling me a   
   >> liar?   
   >> yes... you got off your ass to search for proof you say.... hmmmm.... and   
   >> what proof was that....?..... a couple of grumps grumbling.... hmmmm....   
   >> members of the gun-loon-lobby, perhaps.... even retired policemen who   
   >> didn't know the registry applied to them and that they probably wouldn't   
   >> even know how to turn on their computer, much less understand complex   
   >> mathematics utilized to determine criminal behaviour patterns...   
   >   
   > We haven't seen anything from you at all that proves registration works,   
   > only the same old crap. You people said the police force is all in favour   
   > of the registry, but have not backed that up. And when I produced evidence   
   > that in fact, the very people you say support it, people who know because   
   > they're out there on the front lines, don't support the registry and you   
   > cry it's only a few retired incompetent cops.   
   > In an earlier post, I even posted a number of chiefs saying they have   
   > changed their mind, and are no longer in favour of the registry because it   
   > doesn't, nor will it ever work.   
   > Well, here are some cops that aren't retired, or incompetent. They are   
   > high rank, and/or seasoned officers.   
   > Can you please post the proof you say you have, rather than just resorting   
   > to name calling. You made the claim that cops, and especially the chiefs,   
   > supported it, show me.   
   > I particularly like this first one, chief telling his officer to not use   
   > the registry, but also not speak out against it or he would be fired!!!!   
   > WOW.   
   >   
   > SASKATCHEWAN RCMP OFFICER: "I met with an RCMP officer this week who was   
   > told by his superiors to stop sending requests to the gun registry before   
   > attending domestic disputes because he 'was putting his life in danger'.   
   > The RCMP officer was told the usual 'no guns' response to his query   
   > 'creates a false sense of security'. The young officer was also told that   
   > if he ever criticized the gun registry publicly his career would be over,"   
   > reported Breitkreuz.   
   >   
   > SOURCE: MP Garry Breitkreuz's News Release dated December 15, 2005 - Name   
   > withheld at the officer's request   
   >   
   > TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO: Asked about the bamboozle of the   
   > federal gun-registry system, a billion-dollar fiasco, Fantino - who does   
   > not support the registry, unlike most police chiefs in Canada - noted that   
   > the system has not helped Toronto police solve a single homicide. "We have   
   > spent an extraordinary amount of money in this one area, but we haven't   
   > given the same attention with regards to gun crime in our society.''   
   >   
   > Source: Quote from The Toronto Star - "A shot fired across the bow of a   
   > smug Toronto"- Column by Rosie Dimanno - Page A02, March 10, 2004   
   >   
      
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