XPost: calgary.general, ab.general, ab.politics   
   XPost: can.general, can.taxes, ont.politics   
   From: Some@Other.guy   
      
   Ceri Thomas wrote:   
      
   > Number two; I was talking about private personal healthcare not   
   > buying a corporate group health care.   
      
   I've heard that the premiums for a typical private family health   
   insurance plan in the US costs $10k per year.   
      
   > We are all forced as business owners to pay that workmen   
   > compensation and never get covered as an owner ourselves anyhow.   
      
   In Ontario, given an INCORPORATED company with shareholders and   
   directors, WSIB premiums are NOT applied to employees if they are   
   shareholders.   
      
   WSIB premiums are charged based on the nature of the business of the   
   company.  If your company does building demolition, then you pay the   
   highest WSIB premiums.  We pay what I think is the lowest - around 30   
   cents per $100 of gross salary - with a cap if the salary is something   
   like $90k or $100k.  Again, if you're an owner (ie a shareholder) then   
   WSIB doesn't apply to you (and you also don't pay into UI/EI - your   
   earnings are not insured which means if you fire yourself then you   
   can't collect UI).   
      
   As an owner/shareholder, if you elect to pay yourself dividends   
   instead of a salary, then you can receive $36k in dividends and not   
   pay a dollar in income tax, and I think the tax is something like 18%   
   on the next 36k of dividend income.  Note also that if you receive   
   your compensation as a dividend, then you also won't have EHT   
   (employer health tax and the new health SURTAX) or CPP taken off   
   either.  But you still have access to OHIP.   
      
   > Not the same elsewhere in the world though I've found out. The US   
   > doesn't force you to pay health care it's only an option to entise   
   > employees.   
      
   No - in some states (Mass) they have recent laws that everyone MUST   
   participate in a health insurance plan.   
      
   The problem with the US is that health insurance costs a lot because:   
      
   1) small businesses are forbidden by law to join or "band" together as   
   a co-op to get a better deal on health insurance   
      
   2) small businesses and even state gov'ts are forbidden by law to   
   engage in bulk buying or contracts for prescription drugs   
      
   3) many single people in their 20's and 30's who are in the work-force   
   and who are generally healthy choose not to participate in a health   
   insurance plan.  Because you have so many people that do not   
   participate (and they typically don't consume much in the way of   
   health care services anyways) what you have left are older people and   
   families and they must pay more.  Car insurance is manditory - but if   
   it were optional then you'd have some (many?) people that would   
   opt-out and the premiums would go up for everyone else.   
      
   4) there are several million people employed by the US health care   
   industry and the US health insurance industry who's job it is to push   
   paper and get on the phone and chase down (and fight about) medical   
   payments.  You don't have that administration cost in Canada (OHIP in   
   Ontario).   
      
   5) Malpractice insurance in the US is obscene - because court awards   
   for malpractice (pain and suffering and punative dammages) is   
   outrageous in the US vs Canada.  So because doctors have to pay a   
   fortune for insurance in the US, they also charge more for their   
   services.  Paying a doctor more because of this doesn't mean you get   
   better care.  Many doctors in the US and Canada are cross-educated   
   (they receive specialized education in each-other's countries as well   
   as in the UK and Europe.  A cardiologist in Boston could have received   
   his cardiology training in Calgary Alberta (Canada) and a cardiac   
   surgeon in London (UK) could have gotten his surgical training at   
   Baylor (Houston, Texas).   
      
   The problem with health delivery in Canada (Ontario particularly) is:   
      
   1) More women/girls are entering medical school now vs 10, 20, 30   
   years ago.  Women can make great doctors - problem is that quite a few   
   of them drop out of the workforce to get pregnant and have families   
   and never return to the medicine.  So we have a shortage of doctors.   
   This is helped by the next point:   
      
   2) Medical school costs are too low in Ontario/Canada.  In the US, by   
   the time someone has done 4 or 5 years of general medical school,   
   they've got a huge debt and want to go out and open a family medical   
   practice to start earning money and pay down their debt.  In   
   Canada/Ontario, because the cost of medical school is low(er), and   
   family medicine is looked on as "yukky", many med students go on an   
   specialize and so we end up with too many specialists and not enough   
   family doctors.   
      
   3) We have a lot of old people in Ontario who fall and break their   
   hips and jam up orthopedic operating rooms because they need emergency   
   hip surgery and this causes a huge back-log of elective orthopedic   
   surgery.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)