XPost: calgary.general   
   From: ceri@shawRemoveThis.ca   
      
   That complete bullshit. I us US healthcare here and only costs 53.00 a month   
   nothing more. If it costed 10,000.00 a year would be the cost of haven a   
   full time srugical staff in a fully private hospital at your very pecking   
   call 24/7. The truth is most very wealthy people in the us just pay the bill   
   when it given as the use of insurance when you have the money is redundent.   
      
   "Some Other Guy"  wrote in message   
   news:459B07D8.DE823B14@Other.guy...   
   > Ceri Thomas wrote:   
   >   
   >> Number two; I was talking about private personal healthcare not   
   >> buying a corporate group health care.   
   >   
   > I've heard that the premiums for a typical private family health   
   > insurance plan in the US costs $10k per year.   
   >   
   >> We are all forced as business owners to pay that workmen   
   >> compensation and never get covered as an owner ourselves anyhow.   
   >   
   > In Ontario, given an INCORPORATED company with shareholders and   
   > directors, WSIB premiums are NOT applied to employees if they are   
   > shareholders.   
      
   Isn't that nice for you in Ontario it's not the same here in Alberta though.   
   As I live in Alberta that's all that counts to me. The UI is the same here   
   though.   
      
      
   >   
   > WSIB premiums are charged based on the nature of the business of the   
   > company.  If your company does building demolition, then you pay the   
   > highest WSIB premiums.  We pay what I think is the lowest - around 30   
   > cents per $100 of gross salary - with a cap if the salary is something   
   > like $90k or $100k.  Again, if you're an owner (ie a shareholder) then   
   > WSIB doesn't apply to you (and you also don't pay into UI/EI - your   
   > earnings are not insured which means if you fire yourself then you   
   > can't collect UI).   
   >   
   > As an owner/shareholder, if you elect to pay yourself dividends   
   > instead of a salary, then you can receive $36k in dividends and not   
   > pay a dollar in income tax, and I think the tax is something like 18%   
   > on the next 36k of dividend income.  Note also that if you receive   
   > your compensation as a dividend, then you also won't have EHT   
   > (employer health tax and the new health SURTAX) or CPP taken off   
   > either.  But you still have access to OHIP.   
   >   
   >> Not the same elsewhere in the world though I've found out. The US   
   >> doesn't force you to pay health care it's only an option to entise   
   >> employees.   
   >   
   > No - in some states (Mass) they have recent laws that everyone MUST   
   > participate in a health insurance plan.   
   >   
   > The problem with the US is that health insurance costs a lot because:   
   >   
   > 1) small businesses are forbidden by law to join or "band" together as   
   > a co-op to get a better deal on health insurance   
   >   
   > 2) small businesses and even state gov'ts are forbidden by law to   
   > engage in bulk buying or contracts for prescription drugs   
   >   
   > 3) many single people in their 20's and 30's who are in the work-force   
   > and who are generally healthy choose not to participate in a health   
   > insurance plan.  Because you have so many people that do not   
   > participate (and they typically don't consume much in the way of   
   > health care services anyways) what you have left are older people and   
   > families and they must pay more.  Car insurance is manditory - but if   
   > it were optional then you'd have some (many?) people that would   
   > opt-out and the premiums would go up for everyone else.   
   >   
   > 4) there are several million people employed by the US health care   
   > industry and the US health insurance industry who's job it is to push   
   > paper and get on the phone and chase down (and fight about) medical   
   > payments.  You don't have that administration cost in Canada (OHIP in   
   > Ontario).   
   >   
   > 5) Malpractice insurance in the US is obscene - because court awards   
   > for malpractice (pain and suffering and punative dammages) is   
   > outrageous in the US vs Canada.  So because doctors have to pay a   
   > fortune for insurance in the US, they also charge more for their   
   > services.  Paying a doctor more because of this doesn't mean you get   
   > better care.  Many doctors in the US and Canada are cross-educated   
   > (they receive specialized education in each-other's countries as well   
   > as in the UK and Europe.  A cardiologist in Boston could have received   
   > his cardiology training in Calgary Alberta (Canada) and a cardiac   
   > surgeon in London (UK) could have gotten his surgical training at   
   > Baylor (Houston, Texas).   
      
   The crown runs the hosptials here and they don't need malpratice insurance   
   as it next impossible to sue the crown. In other words when they fuck up ohh   
   well to bad and get lost.   
      
   >   
   > The problem with health delivery in Canada (Ontario particularly) is:   
   >   
   > 1) More women/girls are entering medical school now vs 10, 20, 30   
   > years ago.  Women can make great doctors - problem is that quite a few   
   > of them drop out of the workforce to get pregnant and have families   
   > and never return to the medicine.  So we have a shortage of doctors.   
   > This is helped by the next point:   
      
   Trouble is the cost of education verses the wages allowed in Canada for a   
   said speciality unlike non crown/state run hospital systems.  My brother who   
   is an MD and he now lives in the US because he gets 108.00 hour more than   
   here in Canada and he paid 181,000.00 for his education and six years of   
   time not including his cost of living to. It's very simple when Canada gets   
   inline with wages and cost of education then and only then will this problem   
   demise, it's the same issue in 95% of all other sectors to even in mine. Not   
   enough trained qualified people to do the work. so we have to lower unit   
   output and raise end cost to pay for education requiered by law to do the   
   said job at hand. Student loans nowadays don't cover most certified carriers   
   even, so further investment is needed. When there is a surplus of people to   
   work in a said sector the cost of wages goes down as many more needing work   
   but that is not the case here at all. Soon very soon it well be ten time   
   worse in just ten years unless at gets addressed today as baby boomers are   
   about to be the needy in medical attention.   
   >   
   > 2) Medical school costs are too low in Ontario/Canada.  In the US, by   
   > the time someone has done 4 or 5 years of general medical school,   
   > they've got a huge debt and want to go out and open a family medical   
   > practice to start earning money and pay down their debt.  In   
   > Canada/Ontario, because the cost of medical school is low(er), and   
   > family medicine is looked on as "yukky", many med students go on an   
   > specialize and so we end up with too many specialists and not enough   
   > family doctors.   
      
   False here at the University of Calagry and Alberta it's one of the most   
   exspensive places in North America to get a medical education. In the last   
   two years alone it has rising by 100%. My little sister is now going to   
      
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