XPost: phl.media, pa.politics, alt.politics   
   From: htis@nospam.yahoo.com   
      
   what do you mean now. I don't buy the liberal or conservative agenda, I am   
   for a sane life with consequential connections connected to what is right ,   
   honest and just. Everyone needs a good family, clean air and the freedom to   
   live without fear of crime. Doesn't mean we get it though.My holistic   
   beliefs are not for capital punishment but punishment no less . The belief   
   that there is this all or nothing approach to a political agenda is   
   foolish.I think punishment and deterrent should be part of the equation but   
   not the only ingredients.Cameras in many parts of our streets outside would   
   help in my estimation curb our infatuation and costs of crime and make our   
   country a better place to live. We are going to become a second rate country   
   if violence is all we know on tv and movies while other countries move ahead   
   of us in every direction. .Whatever it takes to stop violence by giving   
   criminals a long prison sentence with NO PERKS None   
   "Anonymous"  wrote in message   
   news:ZVGTNXHL37913.4361111111@anonymous...   
   > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, "mcs"  wrote:   
   >   
   > >excuse me , I disagree. If your argument held true, there would be no   
   > >punishment.I never said punishment , in of itself would stop crime. I   
   said   
   >   
   > Bullpucky!   
   >   
   >   "Put them in jail, no perks, for life, No computers no tv ,   
   >   no smokes and no contraband, and slab for  a bed and then we   
   >   might not let them die early from the death penalty and lets   
   >   see how that plays out!"   
   >   
   > Up untill this point you've been spouting punishment as the cure-all for   
   > crime. NOW you're salting in some other liberal mumbo jumbo when someone   
   > points out that your notions are easily disproven.   
   >   
   > >life everything is connected and sorry I didn't say torture by cutting   
   off   
   > >hands, I said put them in jail and show what a deterrent is really like   
   > >without computers and tv and smokes and contraband and then lets see if   
   >   
   > See what I mean... *sigh*   
   >   
   > Your "bottom line" is basically abusive punishment. When everything else   
   > fails, and it *will* fail on occasion, your misguided solution is to teach   
   > a proverbial lesson. Like I said, and demonstrated, this does not work. It   
   > never has, and it never will. Criminals commit crimes without much thought   
   > to punishment beyond "If I'm going to get my ass kicked, I might as well   
   do   
   > it right". Your silly solution promotes more violent crimes rather than   
   > deters them. If someone is going to do something that runs them the risk   
   of   
   > spending the rest of their life in a man made hell, why not go all the   
   way?   
   >   
   > You really need to think about your posiion some more...   
   > >punishment and the whole enchilada  (early education) didn't matter.   
   > > Incidentally you suggested there is no correlation between rigid   
   punishment   
   > >and decline of crime. In many societies in the Orient and Islamic   
   cultures   
   > >with very harsh punishment there is much less crime . So it all depends   
   > >which study you want to look at.Now whether this is replaced by   
   repression   
   > >and terrorism , that's another story but  we desperately need MORE SANE   
   > >DETERRENTS   
   > >"Anonymous"  wrote in message   
   > >news:2UFF7RVO37913.1643518519@anonymous...   
   > >> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, "mcs"  wrote:   
   > >>   
   > >> >I just disagree allot . We just don't emphasize the punishment angle .   
   > >The   
   > >>   
   > >>     
   > >>   
   > >> You appear to have no grasp of reality, nor history. Examine any period   
   of   
   > >> time in any society where criminals were dealt with in horrific ways   
   and   
   > >> you'll be staring directly at one of the most bloody, crime riddled   
   eras   
   > >of   
   > >> that civilization. Take for example medieval Europe, where you could   
   loose   
   > >> a hand for stealing a loaf of bread. More bread was stolen then than   
   now.   
   > >> Why? Because crime levels rise and fall on factors other than   
   punishment.   
   > >> This has been time tested and proven since history has been recorded,   
   yet   
   > >> many people still seem to be unable to grasp the simple, logical truth.   
   > >And   
   > >> THAT, my friend is one of the problems of modern society that causes   
   crime   
   > >> rates to rise.   
   > >>   
   > >> You are part of the problem, not the solution. Sorry.   
   > >> -=-   
   > >> This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.   
   > >>   
   > >>   
   > >>   
   > >> Put them in jail, no perks, for life, No computers no tv , no smokes   
   and   
   > >no contraband, and slab for  a bed and then we might not let them die   
   early   
   > >from the death penalty and lets see how that plays out!   
   >   
   > -=-   
   > This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.   
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