From: stephen@sprunk.org

On 15-May-14 16:32, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Stephen Sprunk  wrote:
>> On 15-May-14 11:58, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> Stephen Sprunk  wrote:
>>>> This law only criminalized having a "secret compartment" in
>>>> your vehicle that the police can establish (beyond a
>>>> reasonable doubt) is "intended" to be used to carry
>>>> contraband. Basically, the goal is to be able to nail smugglers
>>>> on return trips when the compartment is empty--assuming you're
>>>> not smuggling things in both directions.
>>>
>>> Can you give me an example of this?
>>
>> Perp smuggles drugs north in the secret compartment but doesn't get
>> caught.  Perp then returns south, gets stopped and arrested for
>> having a secret compartment even though it's empty.  Granted, he
>> wasn't charged with smuggling drugs, but he still goes to prison
>> and has that on his record for life, which counts as "nailed".
>
> No, that makes no sense, Stephen. You failed to think this through.
> Unless that secret compartment was in plain sight, he can't get
> arrested for it,

The compartment isn't very secret if it's in plain sight; it's the kind
of thing cops would only discover during a search.

> and there's no way to prove that the purpose of the compartment
> was smuggling, you know, the criterion "beyond a a reasonable
> doubt" you said would have to be met in your precursor article.

Regardless of what you think, that is indeed the standard to be met, and
it has in fact been met in at least one case (in OH).

>>> There could be a non-criminal purpose to a hidden compartment,
>>> such as thwarting robbers.
>>
>> See above; the prosecution still has to establish (beyond a
>> reasonable doubt) that the secret compartment was "intended" to be
>> used for smuggling, which seems easy enough to defeat in court if
>> you have a legit purpose for it--and no relevant criminal record.
>
> The criminal record doesn't prove shit.

"Prove"?  Not in an absolutely sense, but it will certainly affect
whether a jury considers their doubts to be "reasonable" or not, and
that is all that matters in our legal system.

For instance, if you were on trial for having a secret compartment and
claimed that it was for hiding your purse, the jury might buy
that--until the prosecution points out your prior convictions for
distribution of narcotics and human trafficking.

> The record of unrelated crimes ...

I said nothing about unrelated crimes.

>>> I don't know when cops have probable cause to engage in a
>>> warrantless search for a hidden compartment.
>>
>> "Probable cause" means that the cops have sufficient evidence to
>> believe you committed (or still are committing) a criminal act;
>> that is a basic principle of US criminal law.
>>
>> The only change here is that having probable cause now gives PA
>> cops authority to search a vehicle without a warrant, whereas
>> previously it did not--even though it already gave them authority
>> to arrest the occupants of said vehicle without a warrant.
>
> You haven't given us an explanation as to what probable cause the
> cops have to conduct that warrantless search. The law doesn't
> create any.

Nor does it need to.  There is no such thing as "probable cause to
engage in a warrantless search"; it is just "probable cause" to believe
you have committed a crime, and that is what gives them the authority to
arrest you, search you or, now, search your vehicle.  What constitutes
probable cause _has not changed in any way_.

Note that, prior to this change, cops still needed probable cause to get
a search warrant for your vehicle.  They still need that same probable
cause to search your vehicle.  The only change is that they now present
said probable cause to a judge during your trial (when you can fight it)
rather than when applying for a warrant (when you can't fight it).

S

--
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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