From: ce11son@yahoo.ca

On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 21:55:01 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
 wrote:

>Charles Ellson  wrote:
>>"Adam H. Kerman"  wrote:
>>>Charles Ellson  wrote:
>>>>"Adam H. Kerman"  wrote:
>>>>>Charles Ellson  wrote:
>>>>>>"Adam H. Kerman"  wrote:
>>>>>>>Charles Ellson  wrote:
>>>>>>>>"Adam H. Kerman"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>Stephen Sprunk  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>On 22-Apr-15 09:16, John Levine wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's just like the stupidity of our CDMA/TDMA/iDEN war while the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>world standardized on GSM.  Despite its flaws, GSM is far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>superior to all of the US-developed systems _and_ costs less due
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to economy of scale, which is why all US carriers are finally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>moving that way.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Oh, c'mon, GSM came later. And it was mostly Europe that decided to
>>>>>>>>>>>>use an international standards-making process because of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>relatively small countries; I don't recall any other part of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>world being involved.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Quite right.  It was developed by ETSI, where E stands for European.
>
>>>>>>>>>>It was developed by CEPT and later transferred to ETSI.
>
>>>>>>>>>That would be the consortium of European post offices, not a
world-wide
>>>>>>>>>standards-making process, so your earlier statement was wrong. Who
else
>>>>>>>>>would have developed it? Under European socialism, the post office was
>>>>>>>>>put in charge of the telephone infrastructure.
>
>>>>>>>>In most cases long before socialism was a working (FSVO "working")
>>>>>>>>concept. Communications were generally kept within control of
>>>>>>>>government agencies from long ago, the most convenient department
>>>>>>>>tending to be the national Post Office which already dealt with
>>>>>>>>letters and later usually inherited telegraphs followed by telephones.
>>>>>>>>Describing the governments at the relevant times as "socialist" would
>>>>>>>>in most cases be a bit of a joke.
>
>>>>>>>Both telegraph and telephone began as utilities owned by shareholders;
>>>>>>>neither was begun by government.
>
>>>>>>This was in a European context ("Under European socialism" above).
>>>>>>Even if private, the operations would often be subject to a government
>>>>>>monopoly. In the UK, the GPO claimed a monopoly on telegraph services
>>>>>>and this was confirmed by statute in 1869, telephones being later
>>>>>>ruled to be included within telegraphs, the last non-municipal system
>>>>>>being taken over in 1912; none of this involved anything recognisable
>>>>>>as "socialism". A possibly unintended consequence was that failing
>>>>>>systems which would otherwise have closed down were taken over and
>>>>>>kept in use as part of the expanding national network.
>
>>>>>I have no idea why not, then. Coulda sworn I've heard the government
>>>>>single-payer system for health care referred to as "socialized medicine",
>>>>>so what else could it be? It ain't capitalism.
>
>>>>A form of compulsory health insurance originally.
>
>>>So in your view, nothing that has the characteristics of socialism
>>>is socialism.
>
>>Is compulsory motor insurance "socialism" ?
>
>Your analogy sucks. There's no comparison between a requirement to have
>liability insurance with single-payer health insurance. For one thing,
>liability is to other people and perhaps that is society's business.
>
If you are ill beyond self-help you become a medical liability upon
others just as with having a car accident involving more than your own
vehicle you become a liability upon others.

>>Both deal with circumstances where the great majority of the those
>>"insured" will be involved in requiring the service at some time and in
>>the end it costs everybody less to have a more or less uniform method
>>of charging.
>
>That's simply absurd. No one else at all is involved in one's personal
>medical choices,
>
You might not have the opportunity to make a choice so have you got
relevant instructions tattooed somewhere ?

>or they shouldn't be except for socialized medicine.
>
You treat all your own ailments ? Good luck when the chainsaw slips.

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