From: none@none.com99   
      
   On 12/1/2025 12:58 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:   
   > I think I've been a victim of a constant pummeling of promotion,   
   > ignorant people asking if I 3D print, an onslaught of influencers, and   
   > being weak willed due to an oncoming sniffle.   
   >   
   > I ordered a 3D printer over the weekend.  Now here is the deal.  I can't   
   > think of a single think I "need" to print.  Well, there are a couple   
   > things that I could print FOR the new printer when it arrives, but if I   
   > never ordered it I wouldn't "need" to print those things.   
   >   
   > I've done the math.  For 99.99% of the things I make its cheaper and   
   > faster (time is money) to machine it from raw stock.   
   >   
   > 3D printing is slow.  Its not as good.  It still requires a CAD model to   
   > start. There is one place where it may be a trade off.  Using a slicer   
   > on a 3D model is semi automated, and it might be faster than doing CAM   
   > for a 3 or 3+1 milling operation for some jobs... I think.   
   >   
   > There is one area where it might have an edge.  Material price.  Hold   
   > on.  Hold on.  I know PLA starts at around $6 per pound on average and   
   > wrought aluminum at about $2-3, but the volumetric difference is huge,   
   > and with good 3D prints there is much less waste & much greater volume   
   > per weight depending on your machining strategy.   
   >   
   > After I get things figured out I'll probably be using much more   
   > expensive filaments.  ASA and carbon fiber reinforced  polymers among   
   > them.  Maybe even some of the metalized filaments.   
   >   
   > I have some logistical problems.   
   >   
   > 1.  I don't really know squat about the basic nuts and bolts of 3D   
   > printing (filament printing).   
   > 2.  I don't have a good clean room (not lab clean room) I want to use   
   > for printing.   
   > 3.  I don't know what I want to print.   
   >   
   > I thought about mimicking some of the work by Print Shoot Repeat, but I   
   > have already machined receivers from metal.  I'm not sure what would be   
   > gained by making a weaker if lighter receiver, and of course it only   
   > works for certain types of receivers where the force is mostly managed   
   > and contained within the upper like a Glock, AR, SR40, etc.   
   >   
   > I did have a customer once tell me to go pound sand once, because I   
   > wouldn't add 3D test prints and multiple iterations to making his parts   
   > for the same price as making his parts.  "Price sounds great.  Now do   
   > all this extra work too and you got a deal."  Honestly I don't want that   
   > customer anyway.  I don't mind doing more work, but I expect to get paid   
   > for it.   
   >   
   > Some of you guys must have gotten dragged kicking and screaming into the   
   > 3D print world.  Tell me what its better for than subtractive machining   
   > other than a handful of parts that can't easily be machine.   
   >   
   > I do see where injection molding is good for production parts, but   
   > injection molding makes a stronger part in seconds per cycle.  3D   
   > printing escapes me and yet I have fallen victim after a long time   
   > struggling with finding significant advantages.   
      
   As I've mentioned many times before when I have my morning coffee I put   
   YouTube or Rumble videos up on the big screen.  Machining, some   
   politics, forging, off road recovery, fishing, firearms, etc.  As Jim   
   has noted the level of knowledge is more of a dribble than a flow in   
   such formats, but I find it a relaxing way to start my day.  It also   
   offers me the opportunity to start on chores or research tidbits on my   
   laptop or cell phone while the video drones on.   
      
   This morning I went down a rabbit hole of things to print, various   
   filaments available, testing (prints not machines), odd case uses.   
      
      
   1.  Available designs.   
      
   There are a ton of available designs you can just download.  Hundreds of   
   thousands if not millions not counting CAD models that were not designed   
   for 3D printing.  One I would consider using is a cell phone mount or   
   variations of it.  No.  Not for the car, although I have always felt a   
   mount next to the display screen in my truck would be helpful.  As a   
   camera.  For "light" macro to normal room distance a modern cell phone   
   is the best digital camera most people will ever own.  Its even okay for   
   some action applications within its range.  Sure it doesn't have optical   
   zoom which is a must for distance video, but with the resolution, sound   
   quality, and ease of use its pretty hard to justify buying a camera when   
   you have one that good in your pocket.*  More on that later.   
      
   Its an all printed holder with a "C" clamp style base, a swivel ball   
   mount, and flexure to clamp the phone so it can hold a wide range of   
   phones.  Even in protective cases. This and variations would be crazy   
   good for shop videos.  I could certainly machine a similar mount, but   
   some parts could be challenging to machine.  I could also make a mold to   
   make the parts, but again there could be some challenges.  Its not   
   strong, but other materials that are stronger would also be heavier.   
   Strength can also be adjusted based on the next.   
      
   2.  Filaments.   
      
   There is a confoundingly wide array of filaments available for a huge   
   range of applications.  Glass fiber, carbon fiber, metalized, water   
   resistance, heat resistance (to a point), melt out, dissolvable, color,   
   etc.  If I get sucked down the rabbit hole of 3D printing I can see   
   needing to start a notebook just for various filaments and their   
   properties.   
      
   3.  Odd case uses.   
      
   One fellow did a video using various 3D printers as injection machines.   
   It was pretty bad except as an educational exercise.  The video was well   
   produced, but using a printer as an injection machine did not work very   
   well for 99.9999999% of all case applications.  He did sorta kinda get   
   something that produced a part or two, but they weren't great, and he   
   had to use all kinds of tricks, play with heat, get picky about   
   filaments, and play with heat.  I'm not saying it can't be done.  Just   
   that even a hobby desktop lever press injection machine (I have one)   
   will absolutely produce better, stronger, and larger parts.  If you have   
   ever used a manual injection machine you know its not going to make   
   large parts.  **   
      
   4.  Its a hugely popular hobby in the makersphere.   
      
   This means there are a million guys (maybe literally) sharing   
   information, and thousands of influencers promoting product, or just   
   trying to be pro YouTubers.  The available knowledge base is huge, if   
   somewhat watered down by the mixed quality of the information.   
      
   5.  Price of entry.   
      
   Hold on.  I know there are crazy cheap CNC machines.  I bought one years   
   ago for about 200 dollars on eBay.  (Not my first CNC machine)  I was   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)