XPost: alt.drugs.psychedelics, alt.drugs, alt.drugs.rfg   
   XPost: rec.drugs.psychedelic   
   From: BilZ0r@TAKETHISOUThotmail.com   
      
   Oh for fucks sakes man. Read some context into this discussion. It was   
   obviously meant that if someone claims to be seeing elves, they mean it   
   in a "actually, no really guys, elves, just over there, I see them all   
   the time", not in any kind "I once dreamt of elves".   
      
      
   Matthew Isleb  wrote in   
   news:pan.2003.12.13.06.42.27.603619@NO.SPAMonshore.com:   
      
   > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:35:50 +0000, BilZ0r wrote:   
   >   
   >> Matthew Isleb  wrote in   
   >> news:pan.2003.12.12.15.16.51.842677@NO.SPAMonshore.com:   
   >>   
   >>>>    And seeing elves while on drugs isn't a defective or lost   
   >>>>    contact   
   >>>> with reality? Sure, that is what he was after. However, an   
   >>>> objective observer could characterize this as inducing a psychotic   
   >>>> state. If a sober man told of seeing elves, he'd be called   
   >>>> psychotic.   
   >>>   
   >>> That wouldn't be an "objective" observation. It would be heavily   
   >>> biased, insulting, and presumptuous.   
   >>>   
   >>> -matthew   
   >>   
   >> How could someone see elves and not be psychotic.   
   >   
   > "Dreaming" comes to mind. I think "psychotic" really depends on   
   > outward behavior and not any particular subjective experience or   
   > hallucination.   
   >   
   > To call someone psychotic just because they report having seen "elves"   
   > is just plain ignorant. You dont' know what context that person   
   > experienced the elves. You don't know if they actually believe they   
   > saw real, physical elves or not. You just don't know. "I saw elves"   
   > tells you almost nothing.   
   >   
   > -matthew   
   >   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)