From: songbird@anthive.com   
      
   T wrote:   
   >songbird wrote:   
   ...   
   >>    that's still three months not two!  June, July,   
   >> August...   
   >   
   > Exactly.  That leave only one month for fruit bearing.   
      
     that's not been a problem here.  tomatoes we plant at   
   the end of May will be started on picking by mid to   
   late August, the next few weeks are busy.  sometimes   
   we have green fruits left when the frosts come but that   
   is ok as they ripen inside sitting on a table.  a   
   few might rot, but enough are still good.   
      
     90-110 days is plenty for about everything i grow   
   with the exception of new varieties that i don't know   
   about yet.   
      
      
   ...   
   >>    in contrast we had a pretty good season even with   
   >> all the rains, diversity in planting and adapting to   
   >> conditions makes a huge difference.  when people   
   >> complain that organic farming can't produce enough   
   >> food to feed a lot of people i know as a fact that   
   >> those claims are BS.   
   >   
   > I hear that nonsense all the time too.  Yields from   
   > organic farms are a lot higher.  One study I saw years   
   > ago, a full circle farm was getting $1,400 per acre   
   > whist his conventional neighbors were getting $400   
   > per acre.   
   >   
   > In The People Republic of California, virtually all   
   > the wine grapes are now organically grown as the   
   > yields are higher and, get this, every section of   
   > their farms are producing consistent quality.  No   
   > more of this the north end is sweet and the south   
   > end is sour.   
   >   
   > And the difference i taste between full circle produce   
   > and meat is striking.  A guy around here that grows   
   > full circle turkeys is bough out FIVE YEAR in advance!   
      
     probably what you are calling full circle is what i   
   would consider permaculture - there's a lot of different   
   names for some similar techniques.  good thing it doesn't   
   matter what we call them as long as they work.   
      
      
   >>    most farmers i know are older and not owners of   
   >> the land they abuse.  a few are marginally better   
   >> than others but still often abusive.  around here a   
   >> lot of fields that used to be prime topsoil are now   
   >> subsoil grade and poorly drained because they have   
   >> abused them so much.  when you kill off the worms   
   >> and other soil community and don't plant cover   
   >> crops or use reasonable rotations that is what   
   >> happens.  topsoil blows away or washes away or is   
   >> degraded by the abuse of fertilizers and too much   
   >> plowing/disturbances.  you gotta work with a   
   >> place to know it and not just abuse it.   
   >>   
   >>    ok, rant over.  :)   
   >   
   > No problem.  You are ranting to the choir.  Full   
   > circle farming is growing the soil.   
   >   
   > On the bright side, those abused lands should go   
   > for cheap to full circle farmers so they can heal   
   > the land and make it productive again.  And   
   > bring back family farming.   
      
     it would be nice, but as long as they have lime   
   and synthetic fertilizers they're not going to be   
   stopping what they're doing.   
      
      
   > And get away from the bottom line on NEXT MONTHS   
   > spreadsheet and look at the bottom line of a historical   
   > spreadsheet.   
      
     also would be nice, but our system is not geared   
   towards that either.  it's all high-expense and high-   
   turnover type crops.  corn and soybeans are the two   
   main things you see farmed around us.  winter wheat   
   or winter rye once in a while, sugar beets here or   
   there.  rare to see any kind of cover crops which i   
   consider a near criminal negligence as all that   
   energy the sun is putting on the soil is being   
   wasted when you could be harvesting it, generating   
   more biomass, improving your topsoil and protecting   
   it from the wind and the rain.   
      
      
   >>    it was pretty nice out yesterday, today might be   
   >> about the same.  we'll see.  frost last night.   
   >   
   > It is still snowing off and on.  Melts pretty quickly.   
   > Hopefully we will get a good 1/2 inch of water out   
   > of all this and my favorite fishing hole won't dry   
   > up again   
      
     there are very few places i'd fish around here   
   and eat anything i caught.  up north is where the   
   better fishing is at.   
      
      
     songbird   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)