From: wolverine01@charter.net   
      
   On 3/7/2025 10:55 AM, Ted Heise wrote:   
   > On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 17:56:09 -0600,   
   >    sticks  wrote:   
   >>   On 3/6/2025 7:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:   
   >>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 19:55:25 -0600,   
   >>>     sticks  wrote:   
   >   
   >>>>    In truth, I think it is pointless in your case.  I think we   
   >>>>    already have agreed now you simply cannot get enough power   
   >>>>    to charge your lithium batteries from the 7 prong.  I   
   >>>>    would, however, like to know if there is power coming in,   
   >>>>    and going out to the trailer.  If there is a power wire   
   >>>>    hooked up on the 7 prong on the trailer, where exactly does   
   >>>>    that power go? Obviously the trailer lights you can easily   
   >>>>    figure out, and they don't use power from the trailer   
   >>>>    battery.  They draw directly from the towing vehicle.   
   >>>>    Usually the power tab is for trailer brakes, or an   
   >>>>    accessory of some sort or another.  Were you under the   
   >>>>    impression it somehow went to your battery? Obviously it   
   >>>>    can't go directly there since it would be incapable of   
   >>>>    charging lithium batteries, so does it go to the controller   
   >>>>    you speak of later?  You need to find out exactly where   
   >>>>    that power goes, and here's why.   
   >>>   
   >>> Okay, here are some aditional points of information.   
   >>>   
   >>> I'm positive there is power coming out of the 7-pin connector,   
   >>> because I've frequently operated the powered lift jack without   
   >>> any battery connected (i.e., only the 7-pin connected to the   
   >>> trailer).   
   >>>   
   >>> Pretty sure there is power going into the trailer too, because   
   >>> my memory (though not certain) is that the interior lights and   
   >>> other 12 V things work in the same circumstance (i.e., no   
   >>> battery connected, just the running TV).   
   >>   
   >>   It looks like the PD 4000 power controller you have only does   
   >>   one thing that I can tell, that being to convert AC power into   
   >>   DC power.  It operates when it is plugged into shore power and   
   >>   charges the batteries, but will also provide power for the DC   
   >>   power outlets without the need for the battery.  So you can   
   >>   rule out using this controller for charging from the DC   
   >>   supplied power from the 7 prong plug.   
   >   
   > I think that's probably correct.  Here is the (typical) exterior   
   > wiring diagram from the manual...   
   >   
   > https://panix.com/~theise/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Lance-147   
   -ext-wiring-traced.pdf   
   >   
   > This shows that the 7-pin does connect to the battery, and seems   
   > consistent with the trailer manual statement that "Normally the   
   > battery will be kept charged by either the tow vehicle charging   
   > system while on the road or by the AC/DC power convertor when   
   > plugged into AC service."  It looks like the TV is wired directly   
   > to the battery and not by way of the PD4000 load center (though   
   > it's also wired into the load center).   
   >   
   >  From some sites I've looked at while trying to figure this all out   
   > (can't remember where) I've gotten the sense that the Acadia would   
   > be trickle charging the trailer battery.  And of course the car's   
   > system is designed for lead acid chemistry, so isn't going to be   
   > very (or at all) effecive for charging the trailer's lithium   
   > battery.  I also have the sense that the fridge must draw more   
   > than the Acadia supplies and be drawing the difference from the   
   > trailer battery when towing.   
      
   Your pic show about the same thing I found out today.  First, I got two   
   pics from the manual and the first from page 50 does state the power   
   prong on the 7 prong plug goes to the battery and will provide charge.   
      
      
      
   The second pic is similar to your showing the PD4000 as well as the 7   
   prong.  It has a smallest size of 8 gauge right at the generator and has   
   a capability of 35 amps, though it has a 30 amp inline mini breaker.   
   This would be a nice setting for charging the Lithium and probably close   
   to what you'd get if you did a DC to DC generator at either 20 or 30 amp.   
      
   I would agree this setup is not really taking into consideration having   
   a lithium battery, though I don't think ti hurts anything if you leave   
   it as is and go ahead and install a DC to DC converter.  It is just a   
   trickle going to that.   
      
   > The Lance manual also says, "The 30 amp main circuit breaker   
   > located on the chassis in the car connector junction box will not   
   > allow power into the trailer or the battery(s) to be charged when   
   > an overload or short circuit occurs."  That said, I'm not sure   
   > this junction box warrants further investigation so long as the   
   > trailer is getting power.  Stil need to double confirm the trailer   
   > is in fact getting power from the Acadia, and will try to get that   
   > done tomorrow morning.   
   >   
   >   
   >>   So you do have some AC outlets in the unit I believe, and these   
   >>   most likely only work when the shore line cord is plugged in.   
   >>   There might be a disconnect switch somewhere, but it probably   
   >>   just has a bank, or something like a electrical box that ties   
   >>   in all the AC outlets to the shoreline somehow.   
   >   
   > Yes, correct, there are AC outlets in the Lance.  Looks like the   
   > power goes from the shore line to the outlets by way of the load   
   > center...   
   >   
   > https://panix.com/~theise/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Lance-schematic.jpg   
      
   Yep.  You plug in your shore cord, you will get power at the AC outlets.   
   Since you have no inverter, these should be dead unless you plug in the   
   shore line.   
      
      
   >   
   >>       ...To get AC power without being plugged in, you would need   
   >>   an additional inverter that would change the DC battery power   
   >>   into AC for use at those outlets.  So far, you have not said   
   >>   you have such an inverter.   
   >   
   > Pretty sure there is no inverter in the trailer (though it seems   
   > there must be one in the Acadia to run its low power AC outlet).   
      
   Yes, any AC outlets in the Acadia have to be powered by an inverter.   
   They're getting quite big these days.  I think yours is 150 watt max.  I   
   remember years ago I needed one on my work truck and spent a good penny   
   on a 100 Watt.  I could run my laptop at work and other things.  I   
   thought I was so cool  Ha!   
      
   >   
   >   
   >>   I think you're ability to use the lift jacks off the 7 prong is   
   >>   interesting.  I think it is probably wired mainly for trailer   
   >>   brakes, although it looks like the dry weight of your unit is   
   >>   around 3,000 lbs and 4,000 is the legal requirement for trailer   
   >>   brakes.  Do you have a brake controller in the Acadia and use   
   >>   trailer brakes on your Lance?   
   >   
   > Yes, there is a brake controller in the Acadia, installed by the   
   > RV dealer I got the Lance from.   
      
   Great.  You got brakes!   
      
   >   
      
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