XPost: alt.music.saxophone, rec.pets.dogs.behavior, uk.rec.pets.misc   
   XPost: rec.pets.dogs.health   
   From: douglasadam@tiscali.co.uk   
      
   "It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson"  wrote in   
   message news:1110314536.095706.297830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...   
   > From: Ama...@dcfwatch.com (Ama...@DCFWatch.com)   
   > Date: 10 Feb 2003 09:53:05 -0800   
   > Subject: Re: Otherwise lovely dog hard nipping back of daughter's leg.   
   >   
   > If you hit your dog when it does wrong, your dog will bite the   
   > children or others when they hurt it.  Teaching dogs and children   
   > violence is the answer to misbehaving will only teach them to hit   
   > others when they get angry as well.  I have never seen a good old   
   > fashioned, loving, wise spanking do anything along the lines of   
   > preventing a behaviour.  A nice talk with respect and love goes a long   
   > way.  Spanking only makes a child or dog fear getting caught.   
   >   
   >   
   > I know hundreds of families who do not spank their children and have   
   > wonderfully behaved children.  I know many families who spanked their   
   > children with love and the people grew up to break every family rule.   
   >   
   >   
   > The decline in children today is due to a lack of parental   
   > involvement.  A decline in spanking is not the cause.  Every single   
   > child I have ever known who had what society would easily refer to as   
   > a "discipline" problem is spanked. Hitting a child is loving nor wise.   
   > When a 20 month old tries plugging something into an outlet, a swat   
   > on the hand only shows you lack the true respect to sit them down and   
   > explain OUCH! or HOT!  A child understands hot or ouch, they don't   
   > want these things.  Surely they don't want them coming from a parent.   
   > It takes the same amount of effort to distract a child away from a   
   > misbehaviour with better results than it does to smack them and insist   
   > they stop.   
   >   
   >   
   > Any moron can smack, hit, scold or spank a creature into behaving   
   > properly.  The true test of love is being able to do it with respect   
   > and love.  Those who succeed in raising children without hitting them   
   > when all else fails go on to have wonderful members of society, who go   
   > on to do far more than their physically abused counterparts in   
   > ther   
      
   ********   
      
   You are obviously ignorant of Lion pride activities.   
   When a young lion misbehaves the parent lion gives it a quick swipe with a   
   big paw and it desists immediately.   
   That training goes back into history and that is how, (for example,) the   
   lions have survived the centuries. The young lion has to learn very early   
   the real meaning of survival.  Furthermore Lion packs are exactly the same   
   as dog packs,   
   There is always a Leader who rules the roost   
   In the situation where a domestic dog is owned by a human there is no other   
   dog to contest for superiority.  The human inflicts his will on the dog at   
   an early age.,  The human is then accepted by the dog as its Leader and the   
   dog does not know the meaning of resentment.   
   The pack mentality reigns supreme, and peace reigns thereafter.   
   That said, the punishment is quickly forgotten especially if the dog   
   receives plenty of attention, fuss , and affectiion from its human Leader.   
    Just like human children.   
      
   Doug.   
      
   ********>   
   >   
   > "Trentus"  wrote in message   
   > ...   
   >> "Ama...@DCFWatch.com"  wrote in message   
   >> news:91381045.0302081047.6d6232d8@posting.google.com...   
   >> > You would hit an animal just because a majority suggests it even   
   >> > though you know already that this is the wrong thing to do?   
   >   
   >> Yes, I would, in fact I would do ANYTHING to protect my kids   
   > including   
   >> KILLING the dog if my kids were seriously in danger.  These nips are   
   > not   
   >> playful. They leave a visible mark, and have in one instance drawn   
   > blood.   
   >> Even the non-bleed ones cause her enough pain to cause her to cry.   
   >> Anyone here who would put a dog before their own children oughtn't be   
   > a   
   >> parent.   
   >   
   >   
   >> However,   
   >> 1.)  I knew the majority WOULDN'T recommend it.   
   >> 2.)  I knew that if they DID recommend it then it would be because it   
   >   
   >> WORKED, and that is the aim here, to find a solution that WORKS to   
   > protect   
   >> my daughter, and for the dog.   
   >   
   >   
   >> I might add though, that I wasn't talking about ME hitting the dog,   
   > but it   
   >> being done by her IMMEDIATELY  at the moment that he bites.   
   >   
   >   
   >> And as for NEVER SMACKING:   
   >> Coat a power lead with a bitter-agent to stop the dog chewing it.   
   >> Dog chews, dog gets bitter taste, dog doesn't like bitter taste, dog   
   > stops   
   >> chewing lead.   
   >> Where is this different from :  - Dog does "wrong" behaviour, dog   
   > gets   
   >> "bitter taste" of smack on rump, dog doesn't like smack on rump, dog   
   > stops   
   >> behaviour.   
   >> It's the same damned thing, you just let the bitter product do your   
   > smacking   
   >> for you, and it's a smack to the tastebuds rather than the rump.   
   >   
   >   
   >> I'm not one who totally refuses to use corporal punishment either in   
   > animals   
   >> or kids. Corporal punishment USED to be the norm, and we USED to have   
   > NORMAL   
   >> human beings. Look at the youth around today - all the ones whose   
   > parents   
   >> refused to smack them - are generally a pack of low-life scum. My   
   > kids have   
   >> recieved corporal punishment on occassions. They are also here at   
   > home not   
   >> out vandalising, graffiti painting, shoplifting, tossing shopping   
   > trolleys   
   >> in the local lake for a laugh, or leaving their broken beer bottles,   
   > and   
   >> used syringes under the kids playground equipment in the park.   
   >> People from the generation of my great grandparents were almost all   
   > decent   
   >> people, people from my grandparents generation were almost all decent   
   >   
   >> people, even many of my parents generation were decent people, all   
   > were   
   >> disciplined with corporal punishment in varying forms as it was the   
   > "norm"   
   >> and so were decent kids the norm. Then you got this bambi-brigade   
   > crying out   
   >> "oooh, you can't SMACK your kids, you'll ruin their psyche".  This   
   > mamby   
   >> pamby generation of "thou shall not smack thy child" seem to be   
   > bringing up   
   >> completely conscience-less, irresponsible, immoral, unethical,   
   > cretins, and   
   >> crying "Where did I go wrong". You have ten year olds taking toddlers   
   > from   
   >> shopping malls and beating them to death on railway tracks FCOL!   
   >   
   >   
   >> Open your eyes people - NON CORPORAL DISCIPLINE ISN'T WORKING!!   
   >   
   >   
   >> Almost without fail, where I've found parents whose well adjusted   
   > children   
   >> don't conform to this new "norm" I've also found they have been   
   > brought up   
   >> by parents who use corporal punishment with love and wisdom. The   
   > Bible   
   >> actually says "spare the rod and spoil the child" I'll follow it's   
   > teachings   
   >> rather than those of the bambi-brigaders any day thanks kindly.   
   >> Just because some parents have taken corporal punishment, and turned   
   > it into   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)