XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish,   
   rec.pets.dogs.behavior   
   From: Logic316@REMOVEyahoo.com   
      
   dh@. wrote:   
   >     Question: Has anyone ever managed to get a dog   
   > to understand that it can see its reflection in a mirror,   
   > and if so, did it appear to experience a great revelation   
   > about its own existence at the instant it learned to do so?   
      
      
   At this point, at the risk of getting a bit personal, I have to conclude   
   that we have a B.S. artist and a troll on our hands who debates more   
   like a backwoods evangelist than a scientist, appealing to rhetoric and   
   semantics rather than hard data. DH has pretty much ignored my numerous   
   posts and the reference URLs which I have provided, and is obstinately   
   arguing in circles repeating the same questions which I've already   
   answered. I'm afraid he has already made up his mind a long time ago and   
   will never consider yielding his position on this topic no matter what   
   anybody says :-/   
      
   You know DH, you don't have to admit that you might be wrong if it's   
   THAT embarrassing for you, or if you just don't quite understand the   
   experiments Rudy and I have mentioned. You could simply say something   
   like "you people make some interesting points, but I don't think the   
   evidence is fully conclusive either way, I just feel in my own personal   
   opinion that animals must at some level have a sense of self-awareness"   
   and just leave it at that, and you could back out gracefully and not   
   lose anybody's respect. But all like to do is argue!   
      
   - Logic316   
      
      
      
   "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and   
   give the wrong answers."   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)