XPost: rec.pets.dogs.behavior, alt.animals.dog, rec.pets.dogs.health
XPost: rec.pets.dogs.rescue
From: TheAmazingPuppyWizard@Mail.Com
HOWEDY buggy sky,
"montana wildhack" wrote in message
news:2005112611361575249%montana@wildhackcominvalid...
> On 2005-11-25 18:42:33 -0500, montana wildhack
> said:
>
>> Leave it.
>
> Leave it turns out to be one of the best commands we ever taught Bella,
You mean INSTEAD of training her NOT to DO BAD STUFF.
> because she actually sees the "bigger picture"
That so? If she seen "the bigger picture" SHE WOULDN'T
DO what you got to INTIMIDATE her NOT TO DO with
your miserable stinkin "LEAVE IT" command.
> and thinks it means to forget whatever she's doing and come to me.
NO. It MEANS she knows you'll HURT and INTIMIDATE her somemore.
> That's not exactly what we taught her,
That IS EXXXACTLY what you TAUGHT HER when you
jerk choke shock spray aversives in her face and intimidate
your dog to LEAVE IT.
> but if it works...
Yeah. WORKS EVERY TIME, DON'T IT, you freakin simpleton
Your own dogs have had EVERY temperament and behavior problem
in creation.
> She was barking at a treed squirrel and I wanted her to stop.
Oh? If you PRAISE her and tell her it's O.K., she'd STOP
and probably not do it again.
> "Come" and "place" didn't do it.
On accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE to TRAIN
your dog to COME and "PLACE" ONLY WORKS when
you can jerk and choke and intimidate her to lay down.
> I was about to go out & haul her inside,
On accHOWENT of YOUR DOG WON'T LISTEN TO YOU.
> when I told her to "leave it" and much to my surprise,
Oh? SURPRISE???
> she did.
You mean you GOT LUCKY that time.
> She looked back at the squirrel and thought about it for a couple
> of seconds, but then she high-tailed it back inside.
On accHOWENT of she was AFRAID you was gonna jerk
and choke her somemore <{) ; ~ ) >
> Good girl!
FOR WHAAAT??? DISOBEYING your first two "COMMANDS", buggy sky?
THAT'S what we call DISMAL FAILURE.
"Elizabeth Naime" wrote in
message
news:r2itp09ioneibmse2mgmf0eslc5kohb51s@4ax.com...
> Quoth Handsome Jack Morrison
> on Sat, 20 Nov 2004
> 02:15:55 GMT,
>
> >What's the difference between making, say, a
> >hard-charging field-bred retriever (say an equally
> >independent Chessie) "reliably do something that is
> >completely contrary to its wiring," e.g.,
>
>
> Couple of years ago by now, a woman with fox
> terriers wrote about training a recall on the
> clicktrain list. She had used a long line and
> proofed for distractions per Koehler; yet the dog
> knew when he was on a line and when not, and
> would ignore her when there were squirrels to chase.
>
> She had used an e-collar under the direction of a
> professional, who said he had never met a dog who
> could tell whether he was wearing the real thing or
> the dummy collar, as her dog seemed able to.
>
> Heck, they're terriers. Chasing squirrels or other
> irresistable prey, they'll scramble through thorny
> bushes, tumble down rocky hills, and the prey could
> always bite back (though I'm thinking more of badger
> dogs -- the Cairn Terrier, the West Highland White
> Terrier, and the hunting Dachshund -- badgers are
> reputed to be pretty tough critters). And none of
> that diminishes the fun. What's a few scratches and
> lumps and bruises? And what are corrections
> from a long line or an e-collar in the face of such
> delightful temptation?
>
> What did work for her, at last, was chasing
> squirrels with the dog. I believe she used a harness
> with a long line and a snapback, not to correct the
> dog, but to ensure that during training he simply
> wasn't able to enjoyably chase squirrels without her
> cooperation.
>
> Each time he focused on her rather than a
> nearby squirrel, the reward was that they
> chased the squirrel together.
>
> The fact that his best friend and fellow squirrel
> chaser was a bit clumsly and let the squirrels
> get away didn't bother him... apparently the
> chase was the best part.
>
> Once he got the picture (not long at all) the dog took
> to running over and stepping on her foot when there
> was chasable prey about... which pretty much took
> care of the squirrel chasing problem, as she was
> then able to pick him up and/or reward him with a
> joint chase when appropriate and not too
> embarassing.
>
> A good while after this training success, she found
> that he would run and touch her foot to alert her to
> prey *she* hadn't seen yet. Which gave her time to
> pick him up the time he saw the chicken first...
>
> There are limits, obviously. You can't chase deer
> with your dog; ain't proper and the game warden's
> not gonna be happy with it.
>
> However, I think there's a lesson here for all trainers,
> about the dog knowing what's reinforcing and what's
> not (treats ranking lower than squirrels for this dog)
> and about modifying "drives," setting rules and limits
> rather than trying to "put a stop to it" entirely.
>
> So the retriever gets to chase and retrieve birds,
> the scent hound gets to use his nose, the terrier
> gets to chase the prey, the greyhound gets to lure
> course (or, squeamish though I personally might be
> about it, open-field course)... on the handler's
> terms.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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