XPost: rec.arts.tv, rec.arts.sf.tv, rec.arts.movies.past-films   
   From: anybody@anywhere-anytime.com   
      
   In article , peachy ashie passion   
    wrote:   
      
   > Anybody wrote:   
   >   
   > > In article <3558i.65$V01.41@trnddc02>, peachy ashie passion   
   > >  wrote:   
   > >   
   > >   
   > >>Anybody wrote:   
   > >>   
   > >>   
   > >>>In article <4h28i.88508$p47.37474@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,   
   > >>>"SpammersDie"  wrote:   
   > >>>   
   > >>>   
   > >>>   
   > >>>>"SFTVratings"  wrote in message   
   > >>>>news:1180735370.923758.6740@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...   
   > >>>>   
   > >>>>   
   > >>>>>I'm sitting here watching Episode II - where Senator Padme' is almost   
   > >>>>>killed by an assassin.  And what does Jedi Master Obi-wan do?  He   
   > >>>>>jumps through a window, grabs the assassin droid, and proceeds to   
   > >>>>>almost get killed when the droid blows-up, and he falls to his death.   
   > >>>>   
   > >>>>I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler but the Jedi end up backing the   
   > >>>>wrong political party in Ep3 and the Palpatine administration ends up in   
   > >>>>power for the next two decades. Power returns to the other party only   
   > >>>>after   
   > >>>>a bunch of scrappy Rebel pilots (none of them Jedi) blow up the second   
   > >>>>Death   
   > >>>>Star.   
   > >>>>   
   > >>>>In other words, yes the moral is that the Jedi are stupid.   
   > >>>   
   > >>>   
   > >>>Not really stupid, simply complacent and unwary after 1,000 years of   
   > >>>not having a real enemy to face.   
   > >>   
   > >>    No.   
   > >>   
   > >>   They created Darth Vader.   
   > >>   
   > >>   He was consumed with a childish concern for his mother's safety   
   > >>because he was a CHILD and they left his mother as a SLAVE.   
   > >>   
   > >>   The Jedi Council created their own problems out of poor moral sense   
   > >>and idiot planning.   
   > >   
   > >   
   > > Re-watch Episode I. The Jedi didn't actually want to train Anakin. The   
   > > Council told Qui-Gon that he was too old and they could sense danger.   
   > > It was Qui-Gon's refusal to obey the Council, and then Obi-Wan's   
   > > commitment to the promise he gave the dying Qui-Gon that began Ankain's   
   > > tale and downfall. Jedi trainees are normally removed from their   
   > > families at birth / babyhood on purpose so that they do not have that   
   > > emotional family connection (the families agree to this since being a   
   > > Jedi is such a huge honour and often a better life).   
   >   
   >    So your argument is that the Jedi wanted to toss out to the winds   
   > this kid with enormous power and the ability to use it, and give him no   
   > proper training at all, and that this wouldn't have been stupid.   
   >   
   >    Really?   
   >   
   >     He was already a danger.   The Jedi Council should have done   
   > everything in their power to aid him in this.   
   >   
   >    He was a known danger, a ticking bomb.  Their preferred response was   
   > to send him away and ignore him.   
      
   The danger was in training him to properly use his abilities. Returning   
   him to his mother and leaving him ignorant of his full potential (while   
   probably keeping a watch on him) was apparently a better idea than   
   starting the training with someone so old and already emotionally   
   bonded.   
      
      
      
      
   > > Anakin's fall to the Dark Side was only partly caused by his separation   
   > > from his mother and the dream of losing Padme ... it was also "helped"   
   > > along by Palpatine's manipulation.   
   >   
   >     He was vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulation because of the inner   
   > insecurity caused by the worry about his mother.  Not the separation,   
   > but the constant worry for her safety along with the guilt of having got   
   > out and left her behind.   
      
   PLUS the separation, which was the start of the problems. He simply   
   missed his mother as he told Padme on the ship when leaving Tatooine in   
   Episode I.   
      
      
      
      
   > > The Jedi didn't create the Empire, which probably would have happened   
   > > with or without Anakin. It was Palpatine's plan long before he even   
   > > heard of Anakin.   
   >   
   >    I didn't suggest they did.  Merely that they created Darth Vader by   
   > their nearly criminal level of inaction when confronted with the problem   
   > of a scared little boy.   
      
   The Jedi's initial reaction was to send him home. It was the arrogant   
   Qui-Gon that decided to disobey them. It was only after his death that   
   they allowed Obi-Wan to keep the deathbed promise to train Anakin, and   
   even then Yoda and Mace Windu still had very grave doubts that were   
   still evident in Episode III.   
      
   The Jedi did not create Darth Vader. Anakin's fall was created by a   
   mixture of many elements. Without Palpatine's extra manipulations   
   (including starting the Clone Wars), Anakin could well have survived as   
   a powerful and well respected Jedi.   
      
   That's the entire point of the Prequel Trilogy - how a good boy can   
   turn bad due to many factors during his growing up.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)