3fe83ba8   
   XPost: rec.arts.sf.written   
   From: seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com   
      
   Deadly Ernest wrote:   
      
   > G'day,   
   >   
   > I'd have to disagree with your comment about the influence that EE   
   > 'Doc' Smith had on the genre, especially on people like Robert   
   > Heinlein.   
      
   	You are free to disagree. RAH himself considered Smith one of the   
   largest influences on the genre. So did Campbell, for that matter.   
      
   >   
   > The biggest single influence on the genre was John Wood Campbell jnr.   
   > He does admit to have been a bit influenced in his early writings by   
   > EE Smith as a youngster but he went much further than Smith and did a   
   > lot more.   
      
   	More?   
      
   	Doc Smith wrote BETTER space opera than Campbell. Compare the Arcot,   
   Wade, and Morey series with Lensman; there ISN'T any comparison, really,   
   because Doc beats him hands down.   
      
   	Many of the genre tropes that have become cliches, Doc invented.   
      
   	Doc is acknowledged as an influence for not just RAH, but virtually   
   every writer of RAH's generation, and many of those following (even to   
   this day, quite a few writers point to Doc as a major influence). Hell,   
   my next novel _Grand Central Arena_ (in hopefully final submission now   
   -- I sent in the revised draft a few weeks ago) is in many ways a salute   
   to Doc because he is undoubtedly the largest influence on MY writing.   
      
   > His few early works are similar to Smith but he than changed   
   > to be a bit more hard line science and expanded even further.   
      
   	In my opinion, Campbell was always second-rate as a writer. He produced   
   one true masterpiece -- "Who Goes There?" -- which works even to this   
   day as a work of SF horror. The rest of his material ranged from   
   passable space opera to pretty good.   
      
   	Campbell's influence AS AN EDITOR was massive. I would put his overall   
   position in influence as equal to Doc's, but coming from another   
   direction. Campbell influenced, and instructed, two generations of   
   writers in the field overtly, as the man who would decide if they were   
   published, and what kind of stuff would be publishable. Doc's influence   
   was in instructing by example, in creating the ideas and foundations and   
   springboards of imagination that the others could build upon and jump   
   off from.   
      
      
   >   
   > Of the greats Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, Gordon   
   > Dickson, Pournell, and McCaffery are my favourites. I have a complete,   
   > albeit mostly older editions, of Heinlein, Asimov and most fo the   
   > rest.   
      
   	RAH, Asimov, Niven, Dickson, Pournelle, all acknowledged the influence   
   of Doc as well. I don't know if Anne McCaffrey read Doc Smith or was   
   influenced by him (you can be influenced without reading him directly,   
   or you can be influenced negatively, of course, in that you decide to   
   avoid writing "that stuff", but it's still influence). Perhaps I will be   
   able to ask her at Albacon, since she's the GOH this year.   
      
   >   
   > I think Roberts best works are Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Time Enough   
   > for Love, Friday, Doorway into Summer, and Methusalah's Children.   
   > Starship Troopers rates a very honourable mention simply because it's   
   > in sixth place.   
      
   	MIaHM, MC, and ST rate highly for me. The Door Into Summer is okay but   
   not at the top. TEfL has some top-notch pieces but also some really not   
   very good ones, and Friday is typical Late Heinlein to me: starts out   
   with a bang, then falls apart.   
      
      
   --   
                         Sea Wasp   
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