beecbcd4   
   From: removeantispam*pkuo@earthlink.net   
      
   In article <1124491882.560523.256660@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,   
    mechdan@yahoo.com wrote:   
      
   > Ping Kuo wrote:   
   > >In article <1124456504.817576.99340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,   
   > >mechdan@yahoo.com wrote:   
      
   > >>Ping Kuo wrote:   
      
   > >>>if it work for you, which it must have, then it is because it resonate   
   > >>> w/ your hormone, logical plot line be darn.   
      
   > >>That's really insulting.  I don't think you're in a position   
   > >>to know, since you gave up after 2 volumes, anyway.   
      
   > >really, think about it, when is the last time that a "harem"   
   > >"fanservice" "shonen" "manga" that has anything to do with phrase like   
   > >"logical plotline" or "masterpiece" or "novel qulaity"?  think of the   
   > >intended audience of 10-14 years old boys,   
   > >so, no, at least no insult is intended, just stating the obvious.   
      
   > No.  You state that the reason _I_ like Ichigo must be   
   > because it resonates with my hormones.  That's what's   
   > so insulting.   
      
   we obviously have a difference of opinion here, since you feel insulted,   
   I will take my statement AGAINST YOU back, as long as you can honest   
   say, that if Ichigo 100% keep exactly the same intriguing storylines,   
   same witty dialogues, same story devices, everything the same, but   
   instead have 4 ugly witches going after an ugly hunchback, (no intended   
   insults for the witch and hunchback, it is just an examples.) and you   
   will still like the manga as much as you are now?   
      
   > You're not just stating a difference of opinion, you're   
   > claiming what my opinion must be, and that it must be   
   > based on something utterly juvenile.   
      
   being "juvenile" is not really a bad thing, it is, after all, again, a   
   title on a shonen magazine aimed at the earlier teens, and as sex and   
   food are the two undeniable human instinicts, I am merly, thinking of   
   you as a fellow human being,   
      
   really, like you think I read any of OH Great!'s work for the illogical   
   storyline? :)   
      
   > >beside, your argument is like "you can't judge a movie because you never   
   > >make one." or "you can't tell the food is good or not because you can't   
   > >cook.", my counter argument is, "you don't need to eat a whole rotten   
   > >fish to tell that it stink."   
      
   > My argument is that you can't judge a book from its   
   > cover.  I didn't say anything about whether or not you   
   > could write a story.   
      
   and I didn't say anything about write a story, but to make a judgement.   
      
   and I will say that I CAN judge a series for myself after the first 2   
   books, 2 volumes, after all, are the industry standard for cutting off a   
   series, while my taste are probably different than most others, my   
   standard work just fine for me.  and even reading it free in bookstore   
   did not convinced me that it is worth reading,   
      
   to be fair, I did follow up on discussions in various newsgroup to see   
   if there are any reasons for me to go back, I did that with all the big   
   name, popular titles that I don't like, (FMA, Death Notes, etc.) and I   
   found none, my "early judgemet" works well, at least, for me most of the   
   time, the only title I ever change my mind at is "Antique Bakery".   
      
   > Looking back at some of the stories I enjoyed when I   
   > was younger, like KOR and Maison Ikkoku, I now find them   
   > irritating.  You've got a very short beginning   
   > establishing the characters and then tons and tons   
   > of NO STORY PROGRESSION WHATSOEVER until "something"   
   > happens to precipitate the climax.  It's too boring   
   > and tedious to for me put up with nowadays.  OTOH, a   
   > lot of shoujo manga suffers from the converse problem--so   
   > much swirling around in circles that it's about as   
   > numbing as if it weren't going anywhere also.   
      
   then you must not be a YKK fan I supposed? :)   
      
   this is not a syndrome of any specific series, but manga in general,   
   manga, after all, is a commerical product, to be successful meaning it   
   need to be long, to be long meaning you need to stretch out the story,   
   which takes away from what makes the story good in the first place,   
      
   so you seldom, if every, will have a PERFECT manga for a LONG series,   
   and the weakness usually are in the middle when they stretch out and   
   drag the story.   
      
   can you name a long series (w/ more than one story arc) which is perfect?   
      
   shoujo to me has less problem than shonen in this regard, for the simple   
   reason most shoujo titles are shorter than shonen, so whenever a shoujo   
   title start to get long then it usually will fall on itself.  (eg,   
   Fruits Basket.)   
      
   > I thought the way the story progressed in Ichigo 100%   
   > to be about right.  Other than some wastes of space   
   > consumed by Chinami and Mukai, things actually happened   
   > and made meaningful differences to the plot and the   
   > characters.   
      
   to me it is not about the story, but the characters, IC100%, to me, is   
   about smart, intelligent girls behave foolishly to FIT the story, which   
   is about the opposite reason I have against Death Notes, with smart,   
   intelligent people doing smart things for all the wrong reasons in order   
   to advance the story.   
      
   > BTW, I can't really call Ichigo 100% a "harem" manga.   
   > A story with only three contenders only "feels" like   
   > a harem story if there is some semblance of balance.   
      
   umm, if you say so, :)   
      
   > Evangelion has type of sort of story which I like.   
   > I love complex science fiction/fantasy with grand   
   > schemes and plots within plots.  But I found Shinji   
   > to be particularly unwatchable, and none of the other   
   > characters could make up for it.   
      
   oh, he is a loser, no doubt,   
      
   but then, I start to appreciate loser when I get to know Moroboshi Ataru   
   better. :)   
      
   Shinji,to me, is real, his behaviors is what I expected of him from his   
   character set up, he never deviated from it,   
      
   Gendou is the one I can't stand, that #$%^&! :)   
      
   > >like/dislike characters are different than good/bad   
   > >character, Snape is the best character in HP but   
   > >certainly not one I like, a manga example would be   
   > >GTO's school counselor.   
      
   > I tend to like interesting characters, regardless of   
   > whether I would like the character in real life.   
   > Snape is naturally my favorite character.   
      
   do you mean to like a character and you will root for him and wish good   
   things happen? because for me, I can appreciate a good character, but he   
   can go to the dump because that is what his character is supposed to be,   
   and it won't bother me, (eg, Asuka of EVA.)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)