d6e238c0   
   From: removeantispam*pkuo@earthlink.net   
      
   In article <1125094188.095222.225190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,   
    mechdan@yahoo.com wrote:   
      
   > Ping Kuo wrote:   
   > >In article <1124491882.560523.256660@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,   
   > >mechdan@yahoo.com wrote:   
      
   > That's a silly comparison.  Of course it would never be   
   > "as much as", because it is human nature to take more   
   > pleasure in looking at cute characters than ugly characters.   
      
   it is also human nature to have sex and eat food, but enough said, we   
   will never get out of this endless circle as long as you think being   
   attracted to sex is "juvenile", and being associated with it is   
   insulting.   
      
   > Hmm...now that I think about it, I change my mind.  If   
   > Ichigo 100% featured ugly characters, then that's actually   
   > an interesting idea.  It would also make the fan service   
   > interesting--fan service with ugly witches sounds funny,   
   > actually!   
      
   umm, yes, funny, but the question is the intensity of your empathy for   
   those characters,   
      
   > I'm reminded of Shrek 2.  I found Fiona much more lovable   
   > as an ogre than in her original form.  So yes, I would   
   > have enjoyed Ichigo 100% as much with ugly witches.   
      
   you... sure?  :)   
      
   noticed even in the Disney version, Hunchback of the Notredame did not   
   get the girl in the end.   
      
   > >>Evangelion has type of sort of story which I like.   
   > >>I love complex science fiction/fantasy with grand   
   > >>schemes and plots within plots.  But I found Shinji   
   > >>to be particularly unwatchable, and none of the other   
   > >>characters could make up for it.   
      
   > >Shinji,to me, is real, his behaviors is what I   
   > >expected of him from his character set up, he   
   > >never deviated from it,   
      
   > He defied my expectations.  Usually, the male star   
   > of sci-fi anime starts off as an angsty unsure   
   > teenager but at some point he grows a spine and   
   > fights for what he believes in.  Shinji's character   
   > never grows, and by the third time he just "runs   
   > away", it's tiresome and repetitious.   
      
   if a guy who was raised by a loser, and looks like a loser, and behave   
   like a loser, then he is probably a loser, and you expect for some   
   miracle reason, by the end of the story he will overcome it and do   
   something heroic?   
      
   yes, redemption does happen in most "feel good" story, but Eva very   
   clearly showed that, in fact, told us in the end of the TV series, it is   
   not that kind of show, otherwise, Shinji will run into Rei in the   
   morning rush to school, and he won't do what he did in the hospital to   
   Asuka, etc.   
      
   "real" and "story book" ending are two different things, demand story   
   book ending in a realistc series is, well, not realistic,   
      
   or to put it another way, Eva is not a series out to try to make you   
   feel good.   
      
   I "appreciate" shinji's wimpness, just as much as I do with how Asuka is   
   bitchy, I don't like them, but they are more real than most other anime   
   character ever existed.   
      
   > Ultimately, Shinji's character never develops at   
   > all, which is boring, even if it surprisingly   
   > defies convention.   
      
   if he develops, meaning change, then you need massive amount of setup to   
   show that he is capable of doing that, the TV series, in fact, closed   
   the door on Shinji's development after what happen to Toujo, Karou, and   
   Asuka.  he is pretty much in emotion comotos after that,   
      
   even by the end, he is still trying to run away by choking Asuka, and he   
   can't even do that.  and that, is staying with his character setup all   
   the way "to the end of the world"!   
      
   > >do you mean to like a character and you will root   
   > >for him and wish good things happen?   
      
   > I wish for "interesting" things to happen.  Sometimes   
   > that may be good things, sometimes that may be bad   
   > things.   
      
   > In Snapes case, though, I do actually wish good things   
   > to happen to him because he's one of the good guys.   
   > (Rowling's attempts to confuse this issue haven't   
   > thrown me for even a second.)  Also, I find Snape   
   > a far more sympathetic character than the whiny   
   > Harry Potter.   
      
   Snape will get redemption, but most likely, he will get it only after he   
   is dead, (or while he is dying.) I will be most surprised if he isn't.   
   I am just curious who will be the one to kill him, Voltermore or Harry.   
   my bet is he died while saving Harry, thus making the greatest, and the   
   same sacrific Dumbledore and Harry's mother did, with their lives.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)