From: tnaran@no-more-virii-please.direct.ca   
      
   Ping Kuo wrote:   
   > In article , Travers Naran   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >>Mostly it sounds like a man trapped in an ancient world view and hates   
   >>anything that ISN'T his world view.   
   >   
   > this is a guy who spent a major part of his life laying down the ground   
   > works only to see big companies came in late and sweep him out of the   
   > door, the tone of his writing, I suspect, is because in a way, he   
   > blames the fans for his problems.   
   >   
   > yes, some of his complaints are true. but as a "businessman" he should   
   > have adapted,   (in his article mostly he faults Dark Horse for that.)   
      
   Yeah, Dark Horse took some time getting used to the new ground rules.   
   But to be fair, so did Viz.  It wasn't until Tokyopop started cleaning   
   their clocks 2 years ago that both houses woke up.  That's when they   
   decided to _finally_ license some of the long awaited titles (Trigun)   
   and ramp up the shoujo lines.  Tokyopop's greatest contributions are   
   showing that shoujo and the "takubon" format sells.  Side contributions   
   are showing that unflipped manga is not retail-poison and that licensing   
   the more "mainstream" manga would attract a bigger audience.   
      
   His complaints about fans loving semi-translated is missing a huge point   
   that he doesn't seem to grasp: people dislike many of the adaptations   
   put out.  The fans feel (even if they've never read the original) that   
   it got over-localized to the point it's a different, and poorer written,   
   story.  The near literal translations are a market reaction against bad   
   adaptations.  To be fair, looking over his list of works, I've never had   
   a problem with Toren's work, but far too many other producers (including   
   Viz) have provided piss-poor adaptations.  Even ADV had that problem   
   with volume 1 of Azumanga Daioh (which still makes my eyes bleed).  And   
   his preferred way to work makes each volume some sort of work of art. >_<;   
      
   When an adaptation is done really well, you almost never see scanlations   
   making the rounds.  It's usually when the adapters screw the pooch that   
   the scanlations stick around.  Take the hint guys.   
      
   I just glanced at the comments sections and saw (IMHO) the industry pack   
   patting themselves on the back saying "See? We were right!  We know   
   what's best."  The way they seem to be talking does make them sound like   
   neo-otaku who get paid.  Doesn't make their opinions anymore right, IMO.   
     But hey, so it goes.   
      
   I'd also point out to these guys that in literary translation, the   
   criticisms are WORSE because you're usually dealing with true   
   bi-linguals and scholars hacking your work to pieces with a very sharp   
   axe.  They should be grateful they're just dealing with "ignorant"   
   neo-otaku and a larger audience that doesn't care.   
      
   > in those places were.  in fact, the common "quick fix" method of comic   
   > people is to slap a "manga" title on a black and white comic and sell   
   > it as such,  that doesn't bother me that much, what bother me is none   
   > of those "manga" comic are any good.   
      
   Heh.  No kidding.  Especially since the manga art style is the   
   lower-common denominator one and you get bad writing and bad art too.   
      
   > Del Ray is a big time book publisher that is late coming into the manga   
   > business, but whoever is in charge seems to be doing a good job,   
   > consider how few their start up titles are, they are still able to   
   > acquire good titles that sells well,  their follow up acqusition shows   
   > good knowledge/connections amid the tokyopop on slaught.  (they pretty   
   > much licensed anything that is not nailed down on the floor.) I don't   
   > think a company can come in this late and do a better job than Del Ray.   
      
   The Del Rey imprint was started by Sci-Fi master Lester Del Rey & his   
   wife in 1975 (ok, got the start date wrong), but the Del Rey division   
   _knows_ fans.  They've worked with the sci-fi & fantasy fan bases for   
   years and know how to hire a pro-fan to run a new line.  DC seems to be,   
   "Um, we need to break in.  What can we buy and publish fast?"   
      
   For the record: I don't mind if the original authors agree to changing   
   things for domestic decency rules, and even help out (Shirow does that   
   all the time).  I just wish DC wouldn't be so ham fisted about it sometimes.   
      
   > one of the comic journal article I read had girls show up in comic con   
   > looking for shoujo manga, and when disappointed, the comic people think   
   > it is a good thing?  the arrogances are deep and hard to get off I   
   > guess.   
      
   Yup.  Their biggest failure was their refusal to move beyond super hero   
   comics and publish more non-super hero stuff.  Those creators went into   
   indie publishing and did pretty well in their niche.  I think what bugs   
   me is the way comic book industry types are so stuck in their Marvel/DC   
   mindsets that they simply couldn't see what's changing.   
      
   > in a way, I find all these... amusing, since I no longer bother w/   
   > English version and only spend money on Chinese and Japanese copy, and   
   > the way the English version were handled is the main reason I gave up   
   > on them, so all the bad paper, wrong translation, poor scan,   
   > unnecessary  censorship, high price, and long delay will no longer get   
   > my blood pressure up. thanx god for that.   
      
   And that's generally my feeling too.  If the English adaptation is fine   
   or better, I usually just buy it, but for my absolute faves, I'm reading   
   the originals and being spared the painful "localizations".   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)