XPost: sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.space.policy   
   From: fjmccall@gmail.com   
      
   jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:   
      
   >In sci.physics Fred J. McCall  wrote:   
   >> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>At first I was going to respond to the whole thing then I realized most   
   >>>of it was idiocy like not knowing how disease spreads and denial of   
   >>>all the scholarly work that says there was a pre-columbian population   
   >>>of 50 million to 100 million, 80 o 90 percent of which were killed   
   >>>by European diseseses.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> So you noticed your own delusions.   
   >   
   >No, I quoted three scholarly sources, all of which said essentially   
   >the same thing.   
   >   
      
   I don't believe I am derided in any of your 'scholarly sources' unless   
   you wrote them yourself.   
      
   >   
   >>>   
   >>>Then I noticed you snipped the important part, so I'll just repost that   
   part.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> You mean the biased part that misstates things?   
   >>   
   >   
   >I know a realist description bothers you space cadet.   
   >   
      
   I know you wouldn't know a 'realistic description' if it came up and   
   bit you, chimpshit.   
      
   >>   
   >>>Establish a new family on Earth:   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Already responded to this part, but I'll add one addition.   
   >>   
   >>>Load the horse drawn wagon the the wife, kids, hand tools, initial   
   >>>provisions for the trip, some caged chickens and a sack of seeds.   
   >>>   
   >>>Find a nice spot near tree and water sources.   
   >>>   
   >>>Plant seeds, cut timber to build cabin,d dig a well so as to not have   
   >>>to walk as far to get water, build a chicken coop, take shelter in the   
   >>>wagon until the cabin is built.   
   >>>   
   >>>Dig a hole and build an outhouse so you don't have to walk to the woods   
   >>>to take a dump. If you forgot to bring a plow, make a wooden one.   
   >>>   
   >>>While waiting for the first crop, forage for wild vegetables, fish, and   
   >>>hunt game and eat some of the eggs from the chickens.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> And probably starve to death if that's your mechanism rather than   
   >> having supplies on hand.   
   >   
   >What part of forage for wild vegetables, fish, and hunt game did you   
   >not understand?   
   >   
      
   Which part of "not the Garden of Eden" did you not understand?   
      
   >>>If you see any Indians, don't piss them off; try to make friends.   
   >>>   
   >>>All of the tecnonology, other than firearms, is well over a thousand   
   >>>years old.   
   >>>   
   >>>All the stuff you have is hand made and most of it is made of wood.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Except for all the essential tools, which were high tech items in the   
   >> day.   
   >   
   >Nope, the axe, saw, plow, etc. are very, very old technology.   
   >   
      
   But the ones being carried were not, necessarily.  The automobile is   
   'old technology', but it's changed a lot over the years.   
      
   >>>The item with the most technology in it is a cast iron cooking pot.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>Establsh a new family on Mars:   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Which won't be done at all the way it was done on Earth, with one   
   >> individual going off by themselves.  Now that I've pointed that out,   
   >> you'll claim that Earth colonization doesn't matter and that bringing   
   >> it up is stupid.   
   >   
   >It was usually groups that went off together, but upon arrival, everything   
   >I have said is accurate.   
   >   
   >And the title was "Establish a new family on Earth".   
   >   
      
   'A new family on Mars' would move into an existing settlement, so   
   everything you said was pretty much bullshit.   
      
   >>>   
   >>>Haul in many tons  of technology, materials, tools, food, oxygen, water   
   >>>and repair parts by some means.   
   >>>   
   >>>While working in pressure suits...   
   >>>   
   >>>Install power system.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Self-contained.  No 'installation' required.   
   >   
   >So it it going to get out of the transport vehicle, site itself, then   
   >connect itself, no assembly required?   
   >   
      
   Plugs are 'old technology', chimp.  I'm sure even you can operate   
   them.  You know, if you would READ the things you're pointed to rather   
   than trying to construct a case for why they don't apply you would not   
   make such stupid statements.   
      
   >>>   
   >>>Put up a radiation sheilded structure or bury a non-shielded staructure.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> In other words, 'dig a hole'.   
   >   
   >Yes, a very big hole, put your shelter in in, and cover it up, all   
   >while in a pressure suit.   
   >   
      
   Digging holes is 'old technology'.   
      
   >> All of the following is pretty much also self-contained and automated,   
   >> so all your 'install' and 'set up' is pretty much non-existent.   
   >   
   >Utter nonsense.   
   >   
      
   Good of you to label your following output, but it wasn't necessary.   
      
   >   
   >None that stuff is going to get out of the transport vehicle, site   
   >itself, then connect itself, no assembly required.   
   >   
      
   Chimp, you know where you want to put it (the analog to your 'pick a   
   place with forests and water'), so you land it there.  Sited.  Yes, it   
   will 'unload itself'.  Out of the transport vehicle.  As for your   
   "connect itself", you're just being intellectually dishonest.  I said   
   you'd have to plug in power and water conduits (also oxygen).  Perhaps   
   that's too challenging for you, but most of us can handle plugging   
   things in.   
      
   >>>   
   >>>Install pressurization system with oxygen tanks and CO2 scrubbers.   
   >>>   
   >>>Install water tanks and plumbing system with toilets and refuse system.   
   >>>   
   >>>Install heating system.   
   >>>   
   >>>Install water recyling system and refuse to fertilizer system.   
   >>>   
   >>>Set up system to generate oxygen from rocks and pipe it into the structue.   
   >>>   
   >>>Set up system to mine ice, melt it, purify it, and pipe it into the   
   >>>structure tanks.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> So to this point your 'install' and 'set up' amounts to plugging in   
   >> some power and water conduits.   
   >   
   >Site leveling, movement, and connections at the minimum assuming   
   >everything is pre assembled, all while in a pressure suit.   
   >   
      
   You don't need to do 'site leveling'.  The automated equipment is   
   self-leveling.  You need to plug some connectors together.  I can   
   believe that's too hard for you, but then we'll be sending normal   
   human beings to Mars, not you.   
      
   >>   
   >> What follows only applies if you intend to farm.  Jim may not be   
   >> aware, but we've moved away from agrarian societies over the last   
   >> several centuries.   
   >   
   >The space cadet may not be aware, but we moved away from agrarian societies   
   >at the end of the 19th century when farm machinery was invented and   
   >farming became much less labor intensive.   
   >   
      
   The chimpshit may not be aware, but we have all sorts of agricultural   
   methods that have been developed since then and it probably hasn't   
   occurred to him that "less labor intensive" is what I'm talking about   
   and he's objecting to as not possible.   
      
   >   
   >The space cadet may not be aware, but the priorities on Mars would be   
   >to ensure a constant supply of air, water, and food, in that order.   
   >   
      
      
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