From: mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com   
      
   Le vendredi 22 juillet 2016 20:19:09 UTC+2, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) a écrit :   
      
   > 	Space doesn't have anything to HIDE you. Earth does.    
      
   Air doesn't have anything to hide you (if you are using IR, anyway).    
      
      
   >You can't see    
   > through clouds like Superman's X-Ray vision    
      
   You can with IR.   
      
   >  and scan the bottom of the sea .    
      
   You have a point there. OTOH, stealth only works underwater because nations   
   still WANT it to work underwater. Sonar is extremely effective in water... but   
   it gives your position away. This is not a problem, however, if the sound   
   generators are deployed    
   throughout the oceans en mass... but EVERYONE will be able to hear the   
   reflections. Nothing in the oceans would ever by stealthy again.   
      
      
   >  You can't track every plane all the time --    
      
   Sure you can, if you deploy the kind of tracking network we are talking about   
   for space use. We don't... but this is not because of tech limits, but other   
   constraints that will also affect space-based sensor platforms. Also, keep in   
   mind, the future    
   where we will be placing military vessels in space toprotect space assets will   
   also be the future where space traffic is common place... as common as air   
   traffic.   
      
      
   > we have devices that sorta give    
   > us tracking but we don't and can't track them along their entire paths    
   > accurately (or we'd never lose a plane).   
      
   There is no tech limit preventing us from doing so. The reasons preventing us   
   from tracking every plane are EXACTLY the reasons that cause the "there ain't   
   no stealth in space" argument to fail. That is, it's expensive and we don't   
   consider it a    
   worthwhile investment.   
      
   >    
   > 	This is actually one of the key points I make in the Arenaverse novels.    
   > Fighting in Arenaspace is NOTHING like fighting in our home space,    
   > because the Arenaverse is filled with atmosphere (and other stuff) that    
   > makes it quite possible for you to pull off "stealth" tricks and end up    
   > with engagement ranges back in the "humanly comprehensible" distance range.   
      
   Atmosphere does not permit stealth. Actually, atmosphere makes stealth much   
   harder, because now you have to deal with sound and airborne chemical   
   diffusion.   
      
   >    
   > 	Space is, for the most part, empty. It's got some number of dust    
   > particles and molecules per cubic meter but it is effectively completely    
   > empty for most purposes. It won't attenuate your signals or absorb them    
   > or allow you to refract them.   
      
   Which is exactly why you have so much trouble with background sources (CBR,   
   stars, galaxies, etc). Furthermore, the distances involved set absolute   
   physical limitations on resolution. Most of the analyses suggested by Atomic   
   Rockets are simply not    
   possible unless you have an array with a baseline extending from the Earth to   
   the moon, and this will only allow resolution on one plane, so you will need   
   at least a third unit in a polar orbit greater than 100 000 km. Even this   
   might not be sufficient    
   to resolve 3D images.   
      
      
   >    
   > 	Earth's lower atmosphere, land, and sea? They've got all SORTS of ways    
   > to screw up your ability to detect, track, locate, and identify.   
      
   But none that can't be overcome. The tech exists. What doesn't exist is the   
   quatnity of deployment of that tech necessary. And the reasons we don't have   
   the quantity of tech are the same reasons we won't be able to defeat stealth   
   in space.   
   We even have more options for terrestrial sensors. Space is limited largely to   
   EM detection, and some high energy physics detectiobn that really does not   
   apply. Earth has the EM detection. It also allows for good (air) to excellent   
   (underwater or    
   underground) sonar. It also allows for seismic... if you wanted to, seismic   
   detectors would be able to trace every footstep taken. It also allows for   
   chemical anamysis and tracking. Distances are not a problem. Getting blind   
   ally views is not problem,    
   because people go everywhere, and typically have very little problem getting   
   there. There is no place in the biosphere where we can not place detectors...   
   somewhat unlike in space, where current tech will not allow us to place large   
   masses in solar polar    
   orbits (there is too much gravity to overcome without the free boost we get   
   from Earth's orbital velocity). Earth observation allows cameras that fit in   
   the palm of the hand. If you want any sort of strategically useful info, the   
   smallest a space    
   platform can be is several meters in diameter. Earth observation does not   
   require high quality. Space observation requires extremely high quality   
   optics, with virtually zero tolerance over large areas.   
      
      
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