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|    Message 44,334 of 45,986    |
|    elie.thorne@gmail.com to All    |
|    Re: James S.A. Corey's answer to There A    |
|    23 Sep 16 05:35:47    |
      Oops, I completely forgot that hydrogen would be solid at 3K...              At this temperature, heat pumps are too inefficient to be useful. Theoretical       max efficiency is Thot/(Thot-Tcold), which for liquid hydrogen is 14/(14-3) =       1.28, meaning you produce several more watts of waste heat per watt of heat       removed, and that's at        the most perfect theoretical performance.              helium will be neither good enough at absorbing heat per kg, per m^3 nor even       that good as a propellant, so it won't cut it by itself.       So you will need solid hydrogen (as cold as possible, let's arbitrarily say       1K), and a liquid helium loop to keep the surface of the ship at 3K. This       complicates the design.       On the other hand, wouldn't solid hydrogen be less prone to escape and       embrittle everything?              So as long as we have a (initially) solid heat sink and a liquid helium loop,       it is probably not that much more complicated to have one type or another, or       even several at the same time.       Still, I would stick with hydrogen, at least for the most part, for its       capacity to absorb more heat per kg at low temperature, and for its       performance as a propellant.              Hydrogen absorbing more energy per kg is a feature, not a liability: energy is       free at as great a quantity as needed with the Sun, thanks to solar-thermal       propulsion. If you need more energy for a given dV, simply increase the mirror       aperture.       This may not hold in the outer reaches of the system, though I am not sure how       the design should be adapted for those conditions, and it probably depends on       the required mission.       But in the inner Solar System, pretty much the only important factor is dV per       kg, regardless of how much energy it requires. (As long as the plume itself is       not visible, so light sail or photon drive is out)              Bulk is a drawback, but not such a big one I suspect. By far the most energy       received is from the Sun, and this is taken care of with the solar-thermal       engine. For the rest, you end up with a long, thin cone, but this craft       doesn't have to manoeuvre        anyway.       A numerical analysis would be necessary to see how this plays out, but with       the better dV of hydrogen, I suspect it still holds the advantage.              As for an insulated heat sink where heat is bottled instead of released, how       good would insulation need to be for long-term storage? how good are       existing/theoretical insulators? How well can you insulate the coolant loop       itself?              One case where such a heat sink could be useful is, for the brief moment the       mission becomes active and you have to start a high-power engine, you want to       keep things cold just a little bit longer (until right when the attack is       launched).       Here, compactness may be useful as it requires less insulation material, but       again, I can't tell what would be best.              > Not likely, unless if you are talking about pre-industrial colonisation. The       infrastructure required to make them viable in the first place will also       harden them against any point attack. Space habitats especially will be spread       over large volumes.              We are talking about a stealth impactor massing at least several tons       (possibly much more) closing in at interplanetary speeds, so probably dozens       of km/s. Kinetic energy is going to be counted in kT eq. TNT       Being stealthy, the defenders will probably have only a few seconds at best to       react, if they detect it at all before impact. So neither time to intercept it       nor to brace for impact or evacuate for shelters.              Unless this is dispersed shirt-sleeve environment (e.g. the countryside       surrounding cities), no civilian installation will survive. Space stations and       surface domes stand no chance. Even hardened habitats (like a hollowed       asteroid) won't be safe: not        only can it aim at a weak point, and being a long thin cone it can be built as       an armour-piercing projectile, but it can even pack a hydrogen bomb to       detonate once the armour is passed (similarly to present-day bunker-busters on       a larger scale).       I suspect even if Mars has started terraforming, a few well-placed impacts       could break those efforts.              > Again, this is only an issue for pre-industrial colonies. Once you have       colonies of sufficient size to build their own military forces, it would be       far easier for them to protect their "space" than it will be for Earth to       maintain its control.               The point is precisely that you can't intercept it, as you don't see it coming.       Even if other sides can build their own, this wouldn't work as a MAD system,       as MAD requires second-strike capability. With this, your opening salvo can       destroy the other side's launchers/attempts at building a launcher.       The only way to have second-strike is to already have stealth impactors flying       around, ready to change course and impact, but they have limited autonomy so       you have to keep launching them every few years. It requires several sides to       develop the        capability at about the same time (or the first one will be able to destroy       the other sites before completion), but building one in the first place is       probably going to cause a (non-stealthy) war before completion.              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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