XPost: sci.space.policy, sci.physics   
      
   In sci.physics Serigo  wrote:   
   > On 10/15/2016 11:23 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:   
   >> Serigo  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 10/15/2016 5:02 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote:   
   >>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> In sci.physics "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>> "Jeff Findley"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>> news:MPG.326a76e45028f09b98983c@news.eternal-september.org...   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Nor will you need one! I mean ISS provides its complete power for the US   
   >>>>>> section at 120kw.   
   >>>>>> So small reactor, or a bunch of relatively cheap solar panels.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Sigh.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Mars is much farther from the Sun than ISS and has an atmosphere, the   
   >>>>> net results of which is that there is far less power available on the   
   >>>>> surface of Mars than there is at the ISS.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> To get an average daily output of 120 kW on Mars you need about   
   >>>>> 3,000 square meters of solar panels.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Sigh.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Now do the math.  That's a square around 55 meters on a side.  In   
   >>>> other words, it's TRIVIAL.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> square is not the problem, moron,   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Then why does Jimp the Chimp keep raising it as THE issue?   
   >   
   > answer the question, you never have anthing specific, no weight, no   
   > volumes, no costs, nothing   
   >   
   > no wonder you are lost.   
   >   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>  it is shipping WEIGHT and DUST clogging solar panels   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> They actually weigh very little   
   >   
   > WRONG.  1# per sq foot, including mounts and cables.   
   >   
   >> and you could just make them on Mars   
   >   
   > WRONG. you got a cleanroom up there?   how much WATER does it take to   
   > mfgr a panel ?   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >> Dust is easly managed.   
   >   
   > WRONG, can't use WATER, only a Gas, cannot sweep it off either   
   >   
   >> The rovers show that the Martian   
   >> winds are generally high enough and frequent enough to clean their   
   >> solar arrays.   
   >   
   > WRONG. after rover plugged up it stayed that way for months, which means   
   > you have to enlarge your solar array by a factor of 10 to 100.   
   >   
   >   
   >> You could just build 'tented' arrays instead of laying   
   >> them flat.   
   >   
   > WRONG. why have them shade each other ?   
      
   Maximum energy is intercepted when the array is point south and angled   
   at an angle equal to the latitude of the location. Anything other   
   than that further reduces the available power per square meter by   
   a factor related to the sine of beween the collector and normal to   
   the sun.   
      
   >> In addition to letting the dust just slide off them,   
   >   
   > WRONG, dust is so fine it sticks to the plastic and glass directly. A   
   > slide does not clean.   
      
   The periodic winds will blow most of the dust off, just as it does on   
   the rovers. Just expect your already small power to be further reduced   
   periodically.   
      
   >> this   
   >> has the added benefit of providing a flatter power profile through the   
   >> day.   
   >   
   >   
   > WRONG.  They have to store the energy anyway.   
      
   Wrong answer, it reduces the total daily power.   
      
   --   
   Jim Pennino   
      
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