From: jwkenne@attglobal.net   
      
   On 2014-05-16 05:39:19 +0000, William Vetter said:   
      
   > On Thursday, May 15, 2014 6:48:46 PM UTC-4, John W Kennedy wrote:   
   >> On 2014-05-15 22:20:47 +0000, Brenda Clough said:   
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   >>> On 5/15/2014 4:02 PM, William Vetter wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>> On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:19:40 PM UTC-4, bre...@sff.net wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>> On 5/14/2014 7:19 AM, David Friedman wrote:   
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   >>>>>   
   >>   
   >>>>>> On 5/13/14 10:51 PM, C. E. Gee wrote:   
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   >>>>>>> I've noticed, many writers have problems with dialog as they don't   
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   >>>>>   
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   >>>>>>> socialize with such people. Many writers graduate from college, then   
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   >>>>>>> go on to fairly high-end careers, working with others of like   
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   >>>>>>> backgrounds. And they socialize mostly with others of similar   
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   >>>>>>> backgrounds.   
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   >>>>>> I expect I've socialized with a fair range, given my SCA involvement. I   
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   >>>>>   
   >>   
   >>>>>> suspect the problem is that I don't have an ear for it, don't notice and   
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   >>>>>   
   >>   
   >>>>>> remember how different people speak.   
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   >>>>> It is a mistake to model your dialog upon what you see on TV or in   
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   >>>>>   
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   >>>>> movies -- screenwriters get big money for writing that dialog, and it is   
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   >>>>>   
   >>   
   >>>>> not like life.   
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   >>>>>   
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   >>>>> However, it is not difficult to hear real-life conversation. Restaurants   
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   >>>>>   
   >>   
   >>>>> and bars are good for this, especially those who do not have TVs or loud   
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   >>>>>   
   >>   
   >>>>> background music. Conventions and meetings, offices (all the time spent   
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   >>>>> in doctors' waiting rooms can be usefully spent eavesdropping in the   
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   >>>>> office staff). Public transport, movie and theater lobbies, airport   
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   >>>>> lounges -- there are millions of places to hang and listen to people.   
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   >>>> Go to a go go bar during the day shift.  You can study women all you   
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   >>>> want, stare at them, and nobody will challenge you, because it's the   
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   >>>> norm there.  Some of them are ethnic, homegirls, done a little time,   
   >>   
   >>>> were hookers in Europe.  A lot of types that authors try to write about.   
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   >>>>   
   >>   
   >>>> Learn to say "maybe later" to all of them, or it will get expensive.   
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   >>> And if you do that, be well aware that they are not all women, or even   
   >>   
   >>> most women.   
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   >   
   > The only difference that I would make as generalizations are   
   > 1) after about 2 months they have pretty much given up most of their modesty   
      
   Physical modesty, yes, but I've been to enough bachelor parties to know   
   that they don't develop a pottymouth. (I suppose they can assume one on   
   demand.)   
      
   > 2) they wouldn't do it for very long if it didn't fill some   
   > psychological need for attention   
   > 3) a disproportionate amount of self-esteem centers around their appearance   
      
   Judging from what I see at supermarket checkouts, those are   
   characteristics hardly exclusive to strippers.   
      
   > 4) they _want_ their customers to respond to the adult entertainment,   
   > and will be disturbed when they don't   
   >   
   > There are other things I could say, but they might only be true for   
   > some subset of exotic dancer or some particular type of bar.   
      
   The real problem is for men to learn how women behave and speak when   
   there are no men present. (Women seem to do better with the opposite   
   sex than men do, though Jane Austen famously never gives us men alone.)   
      
   --   
   John W Kennedy   
   A proud member of the reality-based community.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)