From: mumble@nomail.invalid   
      
   On 06/15/2014 07:23 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:   
   > On 6/15/14 3:10 AM, mumble wrote:   
   >> On 06/14/2014 10:18 AM, Brenda Clough wrote:   
   >>> On 6/14/2014 11:40 AM, mumble wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> Yes, a creative writing course can only amount to some kind of   
   >>>> introduction, but the author-blurb I'm referring to said that she had   
   >>>> taken a *degree* in "Creative Writing". I didn't realize there were   
   >>>> colleges with full degree programs in Creative Writing, but apparently   
   >>>> the world moves on whether we're watching it or not. I can imagine a   
   >>>> four-year program that would go a great distance toward teaching   
   >>>> someone   
   >>>> to be a writer of merit.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> A degree in Creative Writing is usually combined with a degree in   
   >>> English -- I have one. IMO if you actually want to write fiction for the   
   >>> commercial market you should not waste your time and money on a creative   
   >>> writing degree. Better to get one in botany or systems engineering or   
   >>> nuclear physics. Then you h ave something to underpin your SF.   
   >>>   
   >>> Brenda   
   >>   
   >> We all have our own views on the whole "career" gizmo, and mine has   
   >> certainly evolved; if I was a young person who wanted to write fiction,   
   >> I would study enough English to gain the necessary basics,   
   >   
   >      My feeling is that if you have to STUDY it, you're not going to be   
   > much of a writer. You have to already be IMMERSED in it. I read a book a   
   > day from the time I was very small (6-8) through my late 20s (then I   
   > started having to work hard enough, and have limited enough funds, that   
   > this became no longer practical). I learned from immersion what language   
   > was like and how it was used.   
   >   
   >      To this day I can't diagram a sentence, but I know how to write   
   > anyway.   
      
   The word "study" does not relate solely to classwork, even though that   
   has become the common usage.  Regardless of whether we are "taught"   
   something, or learn it on our own, we are reverse-engineering to   
   determine how the thing actually works, which amounts to "studying" the   
   subject whether that activity is performed as classwork or not.   
      
   If I wanted to learn a new language I might spend some time learning the   
   basics from a book or a class, but I would definitely place myself in a   
   situation where the new language was required as a matter of survival.   
   It is useful to know whether the verb always appears at the end of a   
   sentence, or at some seemingly arbitrary position within the sentence,   
   and it is useful to study a dictionary to determine the relationships   
   between words, but that does little to help with conversational and   
   idiomatic usage.   
      
   There are a few basics necessary to the writing of English, some are   
   "taught" in classrooms, others not so much.  Like you, I could read long   
   before I began attending school.  Perhaps unlike you, I found the things   
   we were "taught" in class to be as conflicting and confusing as the   
   "rules" for spelling, which I suspect most of us recognize as not being   
   rules at all, but guidelines pointing out that in English it is the   
   exceptions that "rule".   
      
   So, aside from slightly differing lexicons, we are much in agreement.   
      
   I understand that you can write, having read some of your work.  I have   
   a different view of your work than many, because to me it doesn't say   
   "cool story" nearly as much as it says "massive unrealized potential",   
   but that is simply my perspective on it.   
      
   There are different reasons for writing.  Some write to become rich and   
   famous by entertaining the reader, which is how I perceive many in this   
   newsgroup.  Some write to convey a message in the guise of entertaining   
   stories, and my observation is that those are more likely to become rich   
   and famous (for example, Terry Pratchett).  Some messages can only be   
   conveyed within the realm of SF since they deal with "what could happen   
   if", and others can be conveyed in any realm since they related to "the   
   human condition".   
      
   Whatever one's goals and whatever the genre most appropriate to their   
   achievement, it has been my experience that money does not come for the   
   reasons most often believed, but most often as a side-effect of having   
   satisfied a need buried deep within the individual; success itself is   
   not a very noble goal.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)