From: mdhangton@gmail.com   
      
   On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:14:59 PM UTC-4, John F. Eldredge wrote:   
   > On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 23:42:16 -0700, David Friedman wrote:   
   >    
   >    
   >    
   > >    
   >    
   > > How large are transportation costs relative to the value of the goods   
   >    
   > > transported? I've seen the claim that, in medieval Europe, grain   
   >    
   > > transported by land doubled its price in twenty miles. If that is   
   >    
   > > correct, it would mean that a relatively local famine could produce   
   >    
   > > substantial starvation and emigration. Also that it would matter a lot   
   >    
   > > whether you were close to water transport. You could still have long   
   >    
   > > distance trade (and, in the Middle Ages, did), but it would be either by   
   >    
   > > water or of goods with very high value to weight, such as silk and gem   
   >    
   > > stones.   
   >    
   >    
   >    
   > I have read that, prior to the introduction of railroads, it was cheaper    
   >    
   > to ship goods from east-coast US harbor cities to European ports than it    
   >    
   > was to transmit the same goods 20 miles inland.  Even when cities began    
   >    
   > to develop in the interior, they were almost always on navigable rivers.   
   >    
   >    
   >    
   > Another consideration is whether the civilization is dependent upon    
   >    
   > falling water as its primary energy source.  Quite a lot of early    
   >    
   > American industrial development was along the fall line, the point where    
   >    
   > you reach the first waterfall when traveling upstream, because of    
   >    
   > dependence upon water power.  One reason that industry developed faster    
   >    
   > in the Northeast USA than in the Southeast USA was that the broad coastal    
   >    
   > plains of the Southeast often resulted in the fall line being far enough    
   >    
   > upstream that it was difficult or impossible for an ocean-going vessel to    
   >    
   > sail up to the fall line.   
   >    
   You cannot "sail" very much up the rivers, without steam power.  You can tack   
   very slowly with a sailship up the mouths of some of the larger, quieter US   
   rivers.  When we talk of river travel to "the interior" of the US, we mean up   
   or along the St.    
   Lawrence or Hudson Rivers toward the Great Lakes, or up the Mississippi River,   
   and then up the Ohio River.  You need to remember two things: 1) it is   
   relatively easy to travel down the Mississippi with the current in rafts and   
   flatboats, but it will take    
   a grueling year for a crew of human beings to punt upriver to maybe Vicksburg   
   in a keelboat designed to do that, 2) the smaller tributaries to the   
   Mississippi weren't navigable more than maybe fifty miles up their mouths   
   (e.g., the Arkansas R.) by    
   anything larger than a canoe until modern times, because the US Army Corp of   
   Engineers dredges them regularly.   
      
   It was economical to build a crude flatboat, load it up in Wisconsin or Ohio,   
   float and punt it downriver, then unload in New Orleans, dismantle the boat   
   and sell the wood.  The flatboatmen would then walk home with their money.    
   Cargo upriver was    
   problematic.   
      
   Additionally, the length of the Red River in Louisiana had been clogged with a   
   massive log raft for the last 1100 years when Europeans arrived, up until   
   Shreve broke it up around 1870 to found Shreveport at its highest navigable   
   point.  Later, the Erie    
   Canal changed a lot, connected Chicago to New York by water.   
      
   >    
   > There was a limited usage, particularly in England, of water-powered    
   >    
   > grist mills being located on tethered barges.  The amount of energy    
   >    
   > available from such an approach is limited compared to what you get from    
   >    
   > a waterfall or dam, however.   
      
   Rivers in the US aren't as quiet as the Thames.  It wasn't so much of a   
   problem to find a place to set up a watermill to make cornmeal or grits.    
   Medium-sized dams, artificial lakes, yeah, you can't start to do that until   
   you get up to the Ozark Mts.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)