From: julie@pascal.org   
      
   On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:11:54 PM UTC-6, Shawn Wilson wrote:   
   > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 11:44:47 AM UTC-7, Will in New Haven wrote:   
   >    
   >    
   > > They did not take women out of combat roles because of some lessons they   
   learned about not doing well. They did it because some old orthodox guys went   
   all shit-for-brains about the danger of their being _raped_    
      
   "Take women out" is less accurate than "bar women from".   
         
   > Who told you that?  Do you think an experienced commander, would give a fuck   
   about that if combat units with women performed well?   
      
   Were you not paying attention to the war in Iraq at all?   
      
   It doesn't matter what the commander thinks is a good and useful idea.  We   
   did, in fact, put women directly in harm's way for specific utilitarian   
   reasons in Iraq.  No, they didn't train as infantry, but they went on patrols   
   and they went far outside the    
   wire to "man" checkpoints.  Some of it Congress found out about and that was   
   that.  Some of the other of it was what the "commanders" had to screw around   
   with in order to follow the rules that those "shit-for-brains" orthodox old   
   men insisted upon.  We    
   lost an entire busload of female soldiers in one attack... twenty-some dead   
   women all at once...  because while the *men* stayed overnight at the   
   checkpoints because it was *too dangerous* to return to the main base between   
   shifts, the *female* soldiers    
   couldn't remain out there bunked with the guys so they loaded them all up on a   
   bus every single day and drove them out and drove them back.  This was not a   
   *military* decision... it was pure politics and it got something like 26 women   
   killed.   
      
   After that women from all sorts of non-combat MOSs volunteered to take the   
   place of those who died because we NEEDED women to search Iraqi women.    
   Because women do understand Duty and they understand Service, and Honor.   
       
   >    
   > > By the way, when I said that you weren't trying to write speculative   
   fiction it wasn't because you didn't have women in combat roles. Your   
   reasoning, that no one is doing it now, is the antithesis of speculative   
   fiction.    
   >    
   >     
   >    
   > Excuse me, but writing SF doesn't mean I have to accept your Progressive   
   agenda.  I know better how and why society and its components work.     
   >   
   >    
   I'm pretty darned sure that neither William nor I are pushing a progressive   
   agenda.  Leszek might be...    
       
   -Julie   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)