From: bap@shrdlu.com   
      
   On 2026-01-19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro  wrote:   
   > On 19 Jan 2026 14:50:13 GMT, Bernard Peek wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 2026-01-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 19:45:42 -0500, Someone Else wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> How do you reasonably sort people's names if you don't know   
   >>>> whether the surname precedes or follows the given name?   
   >>>   
   >>> I like the French answer to this question: capitalize the family   
   >>> name (don’t call it “surname”), so you can spot it wherever it   
   >>> occurs:   
   >>>   
   >>>     Peter SELLERS   
   >>>     LUGOSI Bela   
   >>>     Marty FELDMAN   
   >>>     SAKAMOTO Ryuichi   
   >>>     CHOW Yun Fat   
   >>>     Michelle YEOH Choo Kheng   
   >>   
   >> That is doable but is a separate issue to collation sequences. To   
   >> use it you need to specify which is the family name somehow. At   
   >> data-entry time seems logical. This is probably one of the few   
   >> situations where AI could be trusted to get it right most of the   
   >> time.   
   >   
   > Or, you know, get the person to enter their name into the system that   
   > way in the first place, and get it right from the horse’s mouth.   
   >   
   >> It would also be a mistake for a French developer to store the text in   
   >> upper-case on the assumption that it is the obvious "natural" form.   
   >   
   > Cultures should be able to learn from one another, don’t you think? In   
   > this case, the French came up with a reasonably simple solution to a   
   > problem that happens quite frequently in a multi-cultural society.   
   > No-one else seems to have anything better; why not use the French   
   > solution?   
      
   If you designate a particular field as a family-name then you have a choice   
   of which format to display or print it in.  If you don't do that then you   
   are stuck with limited options.   
      
   The French solution seems eminently sensible to me but for systems developed   
   for English users it is non-standard and will definitely cause problems.   
   Users will complain that the system is broken because they can't enter   
   lower-case names. Can tech-support come and fix it?   
      
   As far as possible systems should work the way that each user expects them   
   to.  "No surprises!" is a good rule of thumb.   
      
      
      
      
   --   
   Bernard Peek   
   bap@shrdlu.com   
   Wigan   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)