XPost: alt.usage.english, uk.media.tv.sf.drwho   
   From: YourName@YourISP.com   
      
   On 2025-12-29 04:43:43 +0000, Ross Clark said:   
   > On 29/12/2025 10:32 a.m., Your Name wrote:   
   >> On 2025-12-28 15:00:29 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:   
   >>> Daniel70  wrote:   
   >>>> On 28/12/2025 7:41 am, Sam Plusnet wrote:   
   >>>>> On 27/12/2025 18:50, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:   
   >>>>>> lar3ryca  posted:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>    
   >>>>   
   >>>>>>> And they meet at -40, which happens occasionally around here.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Most of France is starting each day at -2°C or so at present (which you   
   >>>>>> probably wouldn't call cold in Regina), but not here: in Marseilles we   
   >>>>>> do our shivering at 8°C or so.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> One consequence of the cold is that I learned a new word today: greloter   
   >>>>>> means shiver.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Does it also have the other meaning of "shiver" - to break into small   
   >>>>> fragments as in "shiver me timbers"?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Might that be because the Water would get into the wood and, on a cold   
   >>>> day, the water might freeze and, as ice takes up greater volumn than   
   >>>> water, the 'timber' would crack .... disabling the ship??   
   >>>   
   >>> That is not the correct explanation,   
   >>>   
   >>> Jan   
   >>   
   >> True. The *correct* explanation is that it is simply a phrase made up   
   >> by a writer back around 1795 (not the later Robert Loius Stevenson in   
   >> 1883 that some places claim), and there's no proof that any real   
   >> sailors / pirates ever actually said it. It is based it on the   
   >> definition of "shiver" meaning "to split in two".  :-)   
   >   
   > What's your 1795 source? OED agrees that it's "a mock oath attributed   
   > in comic fiction to sailors", rather than a real one; but their only   
   > citation is from Marryat's _Jacob Faithful_ (1834).   
      
   The phrase first appeared in print in 1795, but became popular after   
   Robert Louis Stevenson used in it "Treasure Island" in 1883.   
   Amoung other places:    
      
   More recently it was popularised by Popeye and the Spongebob   
   Squarepants character Mr Krabs. "Shiver Me Timbers" is also the name of   
   a recent British comedy horror movie, very very loosely based on Popeye   
   (Popeye came out of copyright, so of course fools made a ridiculous   
   movie).    
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)