From: usenet@delete.this.baradel.demon.co.uk   
      
   In message , David   
   Friedman  writes   
   >In article ,   
   > Aqua  wrote:   
   >   
   >> David Friedman wrote:   
   >> > In article ,   
   >> >  "Suzanne Blom"  wrote:   
   >> >   
   >> >>> "Brainwashed into" meaning "hold different views on the subject than you   
   >> >>> do?" Presumably animals that exhibit similar patterns of behavior have   
   >> >>> also been brainwashed into them?   
   >> >>>   
   >> >> Very few animals engage in nonconsensual sexual behavior.  Ducks are   
   >> >> perhaps   
   >> >> the major counterexample.   
   >> >   
   >> > The question isn't nonconsensual behavior but ambiguous behavior. A lot   
   >> > of animal courtship looks as though the male is   
   >> > seducing/bribing/bullying the female into sex, with the female initially   
   >> > reluctant. Aqua, observing similar behavior in humans, interprets it as   
   >> > the result of the brainwashing of females.   
   >>   
   >> Excuse me, the fu@k?   
   >>   
   >> Animals don't have money, indoor plumbing, contraception, etc, etc, etc.   
   >>   
   >> You honestly think human sex is conducted on some kind of   
   >> pre-linguistic, pre-cultural level?   
   >>   
   >> Remind me never to be on the same continent as you.   
   >   
   >I think observing animal behavior gives us some information about what   
   >behavior patterns are built-in and what patterns are the result of the   
   >ways in which humans differ from animals. You observe a pattern we share   
   >with lots of other species--and confidently assert that it is the result   
   >of "brainwashing," i.e. of conditions we don't share with other species.   
   >   
   >It isn't logically impossible, but it isn't the way to bet.   
   >   
   Other species don't have religion or culture. You won't find male ducks   
   in one country following elaborate courtship rituals and settling down   
   to monogamous marriage whilst males of the same species in another   
   location just rape any female they fancies. Also you are   
   anthropomorphising the animals' behaviour by talking about seduction   
   etc.   
      
   As Zeborah said, most religions have a very screwed up attitude to   
   female sexuality and to sex in general. Judeo-Christian and Islamic   
   traditions tend to regard sex as something bad, apart from in certain   
   strictly controlled situations like marriage. Men who feel sexual urges   
   also seem to look for someone to blame for their "evil" thoughts,   
   usually the woman.   
      
   Meanwhile women are attempting to tread the impossible path between on   
   the one hand appearing as slutty temptresses who will lure righteous men   
   into evil and on the other hand being derided as frumpish, mannish   
   blue-stockings who will emasculate men by beating them at their own   
   game. (See almost any tabloid newspaper for examples of either.)   
      
   Helen   
   --   
   Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)