From: ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com   
      
   In article ,   
    Aqua  wrote:   
      
   > David Friedman wrote:   
   > > In article ,   
   > >  Aqua  wrote:   
   > >   
   > >> David Friedman wrote:   
   > >>> In article ,   
   > >>>  "Suzanne Blom"  wrote:   
   > >>>   
   > >>>>> "Brainwashed into" meaning "hold different views on the subject than   
   you   
   > >>>>> do?" Presumably animals that exhibit similar patterns of behavior have   
   > >>>>> also been brainwashed into them?   
   > >>>>>   
   > >>>> Very few animals engage in nonconsensual sexual behavior.  Ducks are   
   > >>>> perhaps   
   > >>>> the major counterexample.   
   > >>> The question isn't nonconsensual behavior but ambiguous behavior. A lot   
   > >>> of animal courtship looks as though the male is   
   > >>> seducing/bribing/bullying the female into sex, with the female initially   
   > >>> reluctant. Aqua, observing similar behavior in humans, interprets it as   
   > >>> the result of the brainwashing of females.   
   > >> Excuse me, the fu@k?   
   > >>   
   > >> Animals don't have money, indoor plumbing, contraception, etc, etc, etc.   
   > >>   
   > >> You honestly think human sex is conducted on some kind of   
   > >> pre-linguistic, pre-cultural level?   
   > >>   
   > >> Remind me never to be on the same continent as you.   
   > >   
   > > I think observing animal behavior gives us some information about what   
   > > behavior patterns are built-in and what patterns are the result of the   
   > > ways in which humans differ from animals. You observe a pattern we share   
   > > with lots of other species--and confidently assert that it is the result   
   > > of "brainwashing," i.e. of conditions we don't share with other species.   
   > >   
   > > It isn't logically impossible, but it isn't the way to bet.   
   >   
   > This is still complete and utter bulls^%t.   
   >   
   > Most animals do not have rape.   
      
   I didn't say they did, as you should be able to figure out by reading   
   what I posted.   
      
   > As Helen points out, most female animals are perfectly capable of   
   > demonstrating just how uninterested they are in sex if they're not on heat.   
   >   
   > Even in species where the female initially shows reluctance or has to be   
   > persuaded, there's a long, long way from initial reluctance to having a   
   > penis inside an unwilling vagina.   
   >   
   > Please show me the "pattern we share with lots of other species".   
      
   The pattern of apparent reluctance to mate by females--even when, as   
   shown by their later behavior, they are willing, or willing to be   
   persuaded. That was a pattern in humans that you were attributing to   
   brainwashing.   
      
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    http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/   
    Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.   
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   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)