From: usenet@delete.this.baradel.demon.co.uk   
      
   In message , David   
   Friedman  writes   
   >In article ,   
   > Aqua  wrote:   
   >   
   >> As Helen points out, most female animals are perfectly capable of   
   >> demonstrating just how uninterested they are in sex if they're not on heat.   
   >>   
   >> Even in species where the female initially shows reluctance or has to be   
   >> persuaded, there's a long, long way from initial reluctance to having a   
   >> penis inside an unwilling vagina.   
   >>   
   >> Please show me the "pattern we share with lots of other species".   
   >   
   >The pattern of apparent reluctance to mate by females--even when, as   
   >shown by their later behavior, they are willing, or willing to be   
   >persuaded. That was a pattern in humans that you were attributing to   
   >brainwashing.   
   >   
   I wouldn't have used the word brainwashing myself, but coercion is   
   certainly a part of human interactions, not just sexual ones. Sometimes   
   it's relatively innocent, eg Oh, go on, have another slice of cake!   
   sometimes it's more serious, eg You're a wimp if you don't .... [insert   
   here stupid and/or dangerous behaviour].   
      
   The problem with sex and consent is that there is a complete spectrum   
   from a wife who says, "Not tonight, darling, I have to get up early in   
   the morning," but who is persuaded with a little snuggling and foreplay   
   to at the other end out-and-out brutal gang rape by armed men who leave   
   the victim badly injured if not dead.   
      
   There is a point on that spectrum where the sexual act becomes rape,   
   even if the woman appears to consent but only does so out of fear of   
   worse violence. But any man who was aware of the affect he was having on   
   the woman ought to realise what is really going on. Sadly many are too   
   clueless or callous to care.   
      
   Helen   
   --   
   Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)