XPost: alt.religion.wicca, alt.arts.poetry.comments, alt.magick   
   From: shez@oldcity.f2s.com   
      
   In article , Tom   
    writes   
   >   
   >"Shez"  wrote in message   
   >news:rTkGpiAVzeJCFw$q@oldcity.f2s.com...   
   >> In article , Tom   
   >>  writes   
   >> >   
   >> >"Shez"  wrote in message   
   >> >news:tzEHhmBWkOJCFwck@oldcity.f2s.com...   
   >> >>   
   >> >> (Chuckle) reality is personal, everyone has their own reality, You   
   >don't   
   >> >> see the sky or the trees in exactly the same way I do, We may see   
   >> >> something similar enough to have a conversation about it, but we will   
   >> >> see different things.   
   >> >   
   >> >Why do you dismiss the possibility that we see the same thing in   
   >different   
   >> >ways, in favor of an interpretation that we are seeing different things?   
   >>   
   >> Your saying the same thing in a different way... or hadn't you realised   
   >> that.   
   >   
   >Seeing something differently is not the same as seeing something different.   
   >It's a subtle but significant distinction.   
      
   To subtle for me obviously, I think your being pedantic.   
   >   
   >If you meant the same thing that I meant, then I think you were less precise   
   >in your expression.   
      
   Is life and the world that precise, do you expect people and situations   
   to be perfect. Do you normally want to rationalize everything you   
   see.... That is a real problem if you cant relax a little and let the   
   world see your not perfect.   
   I am not talking about science, or a theory being tested. Their are some   
   things that people do understand or do beleive and that is their   
   personal view on things.; Because you don't understand or beleive really   
   doesn't make any difference.   
   >   
   >> >When someone sees an illusion, they really are seeing something, it's not   
   >> >what it appears to be.   
   >>   
   >> I don't know.. I have never had illusions..so I don't know and cant   
   >> comment on what an illusion is..   
   >   
   >If you have never been fooled by an illusion, then you are unique among the   
   >whole human species.  If, however, you simply have convinced yourself that   
   >everything you believe is true, then you are much more typical.  In fact,   
   >you are no different from that "vagina" guy,  He thinks he knows for sure   
   >what's bullshit and what isn't, too.   
      
   If your implying that I know how the world works and why it works... No   
   way, I have no illusions about humans being perfect or life being   
   perfect. I really am not interested in debating what you think my   
   illusions are.. I did say hallucinations.. That seems to have   
   disappeared.. From the post.   
    I have never had hallucinations. If you mean sleight of hand or optical   
   illusions that is a totally different thing. Neither are really illusion   
   or hallucination.... Everyone sees the world differently.. Those   
   pictures that were so popular a few years ago with all the dots in them   
   and if you looked at them in a certain way you could see a picture  part   
   of the dots. My husband could see the picture within the picture. I   
   couldn't.... We don't look at the world in the same way.   
      
   However I don't think my husband was seeing things or having a   
   hallucination I was well aware it was a visual illusion though I could   
   not see anything it other than coloured dots.   
   >   
   >> >Ah, faith.  So many folks use the word "know" when they really mean   
   >"firmly   
   >> >believe".   
   >>   
   >> No not faith. actuality..   
   >   
   >No, not actuality.  Faith.   
      
   Your version and you accuse me of being to cocksure..:)   
   >   
   >> Trying to explain magick to someone who   
   >> doesn't understand magick is very difficult   
   >   
   >Explanations are easy.  Everybody has an explanation.  The "vagina" guy   
   >explains magick as bullshit.  You explain it as some kind of subtle   
   >manipulation of hidden forces of which you and your fellow believers can   
   >"see".   
      
   I don't remember mentioning fellow believers, or that magick was a   
   belief system. In fact I have gone out of my way to say its not a belief   
   system.. No more than Yoga is or Meditation it doesn't matter what your   
   religion is or lack of religion you can if you have the talent use   
   magick.. You can if you take the time and practice learn Yoga or   
   meditation. Some people are better at it than others. Which is quite   
   normal.   
   Your constantly ignoring what you don't want to see. Then accusing me of   
   being the one who is blind... Magick is not a belief system it is not   
   spiritual, it is not religious.. It is an art and a craft.. Like any   
   other talent it can be practised and improved upon.   
   >   
   >What you are finding difficult is convincing anyone that you are correct and   
   >they are not.  I note that others have the same problem convincing you that   
   >they are correct and you are wrong.  Perhaps they feel that this is because   
   >you are unable to perceive the subtle nature of reality that they so easily   
   >do.   
      
   I am having trouble getting you to even read what I write without   
   putting a different and personal inference on it. I have said constantly   
   I don't actually care if you beleive or not. Mostly I do put some   
   explanations in for people who are finding they have a gift or talent   
   for magick it helps them to pin down where they are coming from.   
      
   Your need to beleive or anyone else's need to beleive is really not of   
   interest to me, I am far to old to care about what other people think of   
   me, or of my way of life. I do however find it faintly amusing that you   
   are so desperatly trying to make me see the error of my ways, you sound   
   more and more like a fundamentalist Christian trying to save my soul..   
   :)   
   Their is the same desperation to bring me into the fold, and the   
   nitpicking of ideas and language the subtle insults and the pushing of   
   your ideas above all others.... The language hints at my obvious   
   psychosis which of course you will resolve by bringing me back to your   
   version of reality..   
      
   Did it ever dawn on you that your version of reality your nitpicking and   
   your precision and need to pin every butterfly to a card would not be an   
   attractive proposition, or that I might not want to be part of what you   
   consider normal.... Your world to me sees grey and immensely boring.   
   If my reality is an illusion give me the illusion every time :)   
      
      
   >> I have dumbed it down as much as I can..   
   >   
   >Maybe you should dumb it down less.  It seems entirely too dumb to be true,   
   >the way you've explained it so far.   
      
   I am waiting for you to explain to me about music and base sounds.. I   
   don't see that explanation or even an attempt at an explanation simply a   
   get out clause.   
   Would you like to explain to an Anglo Saxon what particle theory is, or   
   to a roman what chaos theory is or a black hole.   
   Neither the Anglo Saxon or the Roman would understand your explanations   
   not because they were stupid, but because they wouldnt understand the   
   theory or where you were coming from... the understanding comes from a   
   modern education and social usage.   
   Neither the Anglo Saxon or the Roman would have that education or that   
   social usage. To both of them computers, television, phones, aeroplanes   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)