XPost: alt.religion.wicca, alt.arts.poetry.comments, alt.writing   
   XPost: alt.magick   
   From: LadyJaneAsherFwdBelow@Vaginas.net   
      
   On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 22:53:12 GMT, Karla wrote:   
      
   >>Karla wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>P   
   >>>   
   >>> I agree that Jesus, using the Word, heals(ed) bodies, souls and minds,   
   gave,   
   >>> and still gives purpose to lives, and stands ready to do the same today.   
   >>> Several witnesses wrote down accountings of these magic moments.  The   
   >>> accountings have been reprinted for hundreds of years.   
   >>   
   >>Actually, quite untrue. There are NO written accounts by any witness to   
   >>these supposed miracles, and the earliest accounts even of Jesus as a   
   >>person come long after his supposed death.   
   >   
   > I will assume, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you disqualify the   
   > Bible, primarily, the New Testament, as a written account by witnesses.   
   > However, holders of the Christian faith as well as non-Christians recognize   
   > these "testaments".  The line they draw, of course, has to do with divinity   
   > and miracles.  Some hold that accounts were written by cultic followers or   
   > crazy men and women.  Be that as it may, I disagree with your statement that   
   > there are "NO written accounts by any witness.."   
   >   
   > Luke, a companion of Jesus wrote to Theophilus (I use the King James but I   
   can   
   > use other English translations or a direct translation from the Greek):   
   >   
   > "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of   
   > those things which are most surely believed among us,   
   > Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were   
   > eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;   
   > It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things   
   from   
   > the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,   
   > That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been   
   > instructed."   
   >   
   > Luke then proceeds to record what he witnessed, including miracles.   
   >   
   > Papias, affirms Mark's association with Christ and the accuracy of Mark's   
   > accounts.  He relies on oral tradition confirming what he heard from the   
   > disciples as well as the words the disciples handed down.  Eusebius was able   
   > to preserve some of the writings of Eusebius which led to the confirmation of   
   > Mark as the author of the second testament.   
   >   
   > Saul, later Paul, repeatedly gives testament to his eye witness accounts.   
   >   
   > These accounts, like depositions or answers to interrogatories, stand.   
   >   
   > One may call them liars or find fault with the translations, however their   
   > accounts have stood the test of time.   
   >   
   >>It is strange in fact how   
   >>there is nothing written AT ALL about this supposedly startling being   
   >>during his lifetime. No Roman mentions him, no Greek, and nothing else   
   >>until the spurious mention of him quite a while after by Josephus.   
   >   
   > You slight oral tradition.  You also don't seem to grasp the time.  Jesus   
   > causes this stir.  He is killed.  His companions witness his death and his   
   > resurrection.  His companions hit the road to tell everyone.  Later, when   
   > they're imprisoned or ill, they have time to set it down in writing.  You   
   > don't mean to tell me that you decide nothing ever happened because it lacked   
   > a contemporaneous account of it?   Remember, the oral tradition was very much   
   > alive.  Luke's sound account is dated around A.D. 59-63.  Luke was a   
   > physician, a learned man of that time and therefore most likely to write down   
   > his eye witness accounts.   
      
   You and I need to stop agreeing. This is scary.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)