[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> only person I know whom I can remember doing back-up flaming for me is   
   >> you; othwerwise I've been on my own here. "Team Dunce" was just PJR's   
   >> "enemies list" and nothing else.   
   >   
   > Both Will and his sock (Stinky George) have backed you on innumerable   
   > threads.   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >>> The "kook" site was created to expose Usenet kooks in a humorous manner.   
   >>>  "Wranglers" would engage in discussions with people in various Usenet   
   >>> groups, searching for racists and assorted nutjobs whose buttons were   
   >>> easily pressed.  They would goad these "kooks" into having a "meltdown"   
   >>> online, then cross-post their meltdown to alt.kooks.  The other members   
   >>> would then join in, creating further meltdowns.  They would also give   
   >>> out various "awards" to the various "kooks."   
   >>   
   >> I'm aware of that, and I've written about the same thing; it's in their   
   >> archives. By the time I arrived, though, members of the group were   
   >> priaarily doing the same thing to non-kooss (like the lawyer who later   
   >> took them to court and ended the group as a significant player).   
   >>   
   >> What PJR did, when he got control of the group as FNVW, was bring them   
   >> into RAP and aapc, and use them against anyone he considered an enemy -   
   >> his "enemies list" as I said.   
   >   
   > That's ridiculous, George.   
   >   
   > PJR came to AAPC and RAP because he is a poet.  He found some kooks here   
   > (notably you and your Donkey -- and later, myself, when I was stupid   
   > enough to believe you), and proceeded to make you his "chew toys."   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >>> Since you and Will were considered to be "kooks," PJR cross-posted your   
   >>> "meltdowns" to alt.kooks, which brought some of his fellow members (like   
   >>> Cujo and Aratzio) here.   
   >>   
   >> Maybe he did consider everyone he used alt.kooks against to be a "kook,"   
   >> but that includes a lot of people who obviously weren't. Either he was   
   >> the delusional one, or he was misusing the group.   
   >   
   > AFAICS, his choices were correct.   
   >   
   > He attacked people who weren't kooks, but that doesn't mean that he was   
   > awarding tinfoil caps.   
   >   
   > You are, and I say this as respectfully and non-combatively as possible,   
   > most definitely a kook.  You think that you're a great poet, get   
   > butt-hurt if someone doesn't heap unqualified praises on your work,   
   > believe that everyone else is involved in some vast conspiracy against   
   > you, and retaliate by calling everyone by childish names.   
   >   
   > I'm sure that PJR had a lot of fun hearing you whine about how various   
   > "Teams" were persecuting you and your Donkey over the years.   
   >   
   > Hell, you even came out in support of MENSA in order to back up a total   
   > nutjob like the late, unlamented Pickles.   
   >   
   >   
   >>>> So he decided to play   
   >>>> elitist snob. Of course, he didn't reject them because they weren't   
   >>>> "good" or "amsart" enough to be on his team - if he only wanted good   
   >>>> writers and smart thinkers, he wouldn't have had nonentities like Cujo   
   >>>> de Sockpuppet on it.   
   >>>   
   >>> Whether PJR would have been willing to take Corey and I as allies is a   
   >>> moot point, as only PJR would know whether it was true.   
   >>   
   >> All one has to do is read his posts to and about both of you; he   
   >> considered the two of you as equally illiterate and kooky. That's how he   
   >> treated anyone who wasn't an ally. Most of the people he treated that   
   >> way left - he "drove them away" as Will puts it. Will, of course, never   
   >> left, which is why he attracted more and more of their heat.   
   >   
   > You've got things backwards there, George.   
   >   
   > When Will first came to AAPC (approx. 25 years ago), Google Groups had   
   > just picked up Usenet Groups -- changing their basic dynamic: Usenet   
   > Groups had originally been limited to professional writers, historians,   
   > experts, etc., who subscribed to Newsreaders.  Google Groups made these   
   > groups available to the rabble.   
   >   
   > Invariably, each group attracted its share of narcissistic personality   
   > types who felt that they were experts on that particular group's topic,   
   > and proceeded to dominate the group by making incessant posts wherein   
   > they exhibited their amazing knowledge of the same.   
   >   
   > Initially, the professionals tolerated the riff-raff, choosing to ignore   
   > them, rather than to get caught up in flame wars (hence the well known   
   > "Don't Feed the Trolls" policy).  This worked for many of the trolls,   
   > however, stubborn troll types like your Donkey only doubled down on   
   > their efforts to dominate the group.   
   >   
   > Eventually, the Donkeys won out.  A Donkey will always win out, because   
   > a Donkey will only keep increasing its jackassery until everyone else   
   > has given up and left.   
   >   
   > In the case of your particular Donkey; he was an illiterate buffoon who   
   > attempted to hijack every thread, and to cram his incompetent "poetry"   
   > down everyone else's throats.  Granted, he didn't come here to   
   > intentionally piss people off -- but his utter lack of netiquette   
   > achieved the same end.   
   >   
   > PJR was the last of the first wave of members who joined the Usenet   
   > group once the Internet opened it up.  He had associated with the   
   > original experts, and with the second generation poets who joined at the   
   > same time as himself.  When Will had driven everyone away, PJR took to   
   > dropping by sporadically to 1) smack Will around, and 2) to try to take   
   > the group back for the regulars.   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >>> He did attempt to steer me away from "Team Dunce," wondering aloud how I   
   >>> would feel when I realized that my "teammates" were illiterate buffoons.   
   >>>  Unfortunately, I mistook PJR's behavior as abusive, whereas he was he   
   >>> was actually retaliating against the group trolls.   
   >>   
   >> Of course he was deliberately abusive to you: he called you names,   
   >> flamed your poetry, and even called you an illiterate buffoon when it   
   >> suited him. Hw sis nor xonaiswe you (or Corey) to be a poet, and he did   
   >> not want you as an ally. Deal with it.   
   >   
   > Yes, he was deliberately abusive to me.  I saw him as a troll, believed   
   > your stories about alt.kooks being a pack of Usenet "thugs," and   
   > attacked him.   
   >   
   > To say that he didn't want me as an ally (and I'm sure that he didn't)   
   > is beside the point.  PJR never had a "Team" and therefore wasn't   
   > interested in recruiting teammates.   
   >   
   > I like to think that PJR came to be somewhat fond of me over the as, as   
   > I have come to be so regarding him.  However, if such is not the case,   
   > so be it.   
   >   
   >   
   >>> I have since offered a public apology to PJR.   
   >>   
   >> And his reply was? __________________________   
   >   
   > IDK.  Probably something along the lines of "I still won't go out with   
   > you."   
   >   
   >>>> He wanted meat puppets, yes men who'd be willing to   
   >>>> stay in subordinate role, not independent thinkers.   
   >>>   
   >>> Again, a moot point, as only PJR would know what PJR wanted.   
   >>   
   >> It's stupid to say you can't judge a person's thoughts by what they do.   
   >> You, for instance, inferred from his flaming of Will and me that he was   
   >> giving you friendly advice (which is silly, as he was in no way your   
   >> friend). Judging a person's thoughts by their actions is in fact more   
   >> reliable than judging them by what they tell you about them.   
   >   
   > WTF are you spewing, George?   
   >   
   > I said that *you* are the one who had misinformed me about PJR; and that   
   > it is impossible for either of us to know what PJR thought.   
   >   
   > As to whether PJR was my friend, that's a matter of subjectivity.   
   >   
   > I like to think of us as friendly adversaries in a series of ongoing   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)