[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> came around simply to flame all of the "Team Dunce" members (and people   
   >> like Corey who didn't shun them), it was easy to believe that he, and   
   >> not your Donkey, was the troll.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> The   
   >>> only person I know whom I can remember doing back-up flaming for me is   
   >>> you; othwerwise I've been on my own here. "Team Dunce" was just PJR's   
   >>> "enemies list" and nothing else.   
   >>   
   >> Both Will and his sock (Stinky George) have backed you on innumerable   
   >> threads.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>> The "kook" site was created to expose Usenet kooks in a humorous manner.   
   >>>>  "Wranglers" would engage in discussions with people in various Usenet   
   >>>> groups, searching for racists and assorted nutjobs whose buttons were   
   >>>> easily pressed.  They would goad these "kooks" into having a "meltdown"   
   >>>> online, then cross-post their meltdown to alt.kooks.  The other members   
   >>>> would then join in, creating further meltdowns.  They would also give   
   >>>> out various "awards" to the various "kooks."   
   >>>   
   >>> I'm aware of that, and I've written about the same thing; it's in their   
   >>> archives. By the time I arrived, though, members of the group were   
   >>> priaarily doing the same thing to non-kooss (like the lawyer who later   
   >>> took them to court and ended the group as a significant player).   
   >>>   
   >>> What PJR did, when he got control of the group as FNVW, was bring them   
   >>> into RAP and aapc, and use them against anyone he considered an enemy -   
   >>> his "enemies list" as I said.   
   >>   
   >> That's ridiculous, George.   
   >>   
   >> PJR came to AAPC and RAP because he is a poet.  He found some kooks here   
   >> (notably you and your Donkey -- and later, myself, when I was stupid   
   >> enough to believe you), and proceeded to make you his "chew toys."   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>> Since you and Will were considered to be "kooks," PJR cross-posted your   
   >>>> "meltdowns" to alt.kooks, which brought some of his fellow members (like   
   >>>> Cujo and Aratzio) here.   
   >>>   
   >>> Maybe he did consider everyone he used alt.kooks against to be a "kook,"   
   >>> but that includes a lot of people who obviously weren't. Either he was   
   >>> the delusional one, or he was misusing the group.   
   >>   
   >> AFAICS, his choices were correct.   
   >>   
   >> He attacked people who weren't kooks, but that doesn't mean that he was   
   >> awarding tinfoil caps.   
   >>   
   >> You are, and I say this as respectfully and non-combatively as possible,   
   >> most definitely a kook.  You think that you're a great poet, get   
   >> butt-hurt if someone doesn't heap unqualified praises on your work,   
   >> believe that everyone else is involved in some vast conspiracy against   
   >> you, and retaliate by calling everyone by childish names.   
   >>   
   >> I'm sure that PJR had a lot of fun hearing you whine about how various   
   >> "Teams" were persecuting you and your Donkey over the years.   
   >>   
   >> Hell, you even came out in support of MENSA in order to back up a total   
   >> nutjob like the late, unlamented Pickles.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>>> So he decided to play   
   >>>>> elitist snob. Of course, he didn't reject them because they weren't   
   >>>>> "good" or "amsart" enough to be on his team - if he only wanted good   
   >>>>> writers and smart thinkers, he wouldn't have had nonentities like Cujo   
   >>>>> de Sockpuppet on it.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Whether PJR would have been willing to take Corey and I as allies is a   
   >>>> moot point, as only PJR would know whether it was true.   
   >>>   
   >>> All one has to do is read his posts to and about both of you; he   
   >>> considered the two of you as equally illiterate and kooky. That's how he   
   >>> treated anyone who wasn't an ally. Most of the people he treated that   
   >>> way left - he "drove them away" as Will puts it. Will, of course, never   
   >>> left, which is why he attracted more and more of their heat.   
   >>   
   >> You've got things backwards there, George.   
   >>   
   >> When Will first came to AAPC (approx. 25 years ago), Google Groups had   
   >> just picked up Usenet Groups -- changing their basic dynamic: Usenet   
   >> Groups had originally been limited to professional writers, historians,   
   >> experts, etc., who subscribed to Newsreaders.  Google Groups made these   
   >> groups available to the rabble.   
   >>   
   >> Invariably, each group attracted its share of narcissistic personality   
   >> types who felt that they were experts on that particular group's topic,   
   >> and proceeded to dominate the group by making incessant posts wherein   
   >> they exhibited their amazing knowledge of the same.   
   >>   
   >> Initially, the professionals tolerated the riff-raff, choosing to ignore   
   >> them, rather than to get caught up in flame wars (hence the well known   
   >> "Don't Feed the Trolls" policy).  This worked for many of the trolls,   
   >> however, stubborn troll types like your Donkey only doubled down on   
   >> their efforts to dominate the group.   
   >>   
   >> Eventually, the Donkeys won out.  A Donkey will always win out, because   
   >> a Donkey will only keep increasing its jackassery until everyone else   
   >> has given up and left.   
   >>   
   >> In the case of your particular Donkey; he was an illiterate buffoon who   
   >> attempted to hijack every thread, and to cram his incompetent "poetry"   
   >> down everyone else's throats.  Granted, he didn't come here to   
   >> intentionally piss people off -- but his utter lack of netiquette   
   >> achieved the same end.   
   >>   
   >> PJR was the last of the first wave of members who joined the Usenet   
   >> group once the Internet opened it up.  He had associated with the   
   >> original experts, and with the second generation poets who joined at the   
   >> same time as himself.  When Will had driven everyone away, PJR took to   
   >> dropping by sporadically to 1) smack Will around, and 2) to try to take   
   >> the group back for the regulars.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>> He did attempt to steer me away from "Team Dunce," wondering aloud how I   
   >>>> would feel when I realized that my "teammates" were illiterate buffoons.   
   >>>>  Unfortunately, I mistook PJR's behavior as abusive, whereas he was he   
   >>>> was actually retaliating against the group trolls.   
   >>>   
   >>> Of course he was deliberately abusive to you: he called you names,   
   >>> flamed your poetry, and even called you an illiterate buffoon when it   
   >>> suited him. Hw sis nor xonaiswe you (or Corey) to be a poet, and he did   
   >>> not want you as an ally. Deal with it.   
   >>   
   >> Yes, he was deliberately abusive to me.  I saw him as a troll, believed   
   >> your stories about alt.kooks being a pack of Usenet "thugs," and   
   >> attacked him.   
   >>   
   >> To say that he didn't want me as an ally (and I'm sure that he didn't)   
   >> is beside the point.  PJR never had a "Team" and therefore wasn't   
   >> interested in recruiting teammates.   
   >>   
   >> I like to think that PJR came to be somewhat fond of me over the as, as   
   >> I have come to be so regarding him.  However, if such is not the case,   
   >> so be it.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>> I have since offered a public apology to PJR.   
   >>>   
   >>> And his reply was? __________________________   
   >>   
   >> IDK.  Probably something along the lines of "I still won't go out with   
   >> you."   
   >>   
   >>>>> He wanted meat puppets, yes men who'd be willing to   
   >>>>> stay in subordinate role, not independent thinkers.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Again, a moot point, as only PJR would know what PJR wanted.   
   >>>   
   >>> It's stupid to say you can't judge a person's thoughts by what they do.   
   >>> You, for instance, inferred from his flaming of Will and me that he was   
   >>> giving you friendly advice (which is silly, as he was in no way your   
   >>> friend). Judging a person's thoughts by their actions is in fact more   
   >>> reliable than judging them by what they tell you about them.   
   >>   
      
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   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)