[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>> flame wars before my arrival -- but whatever.  I'm pretty sure that I   
   >>> was the one who'd introduced it into that particular argument.   
   >>>   
   >>> In an attempt to defend Ginsberg, Pickles told us that he had been to   
   >>> NAMBLA meetings, listened to speakers at NAMBLA conventions, and taken   
   >>> NAMBLA members out to dinner on several occasions, and could attest that   
   >>> they were all good people.   
   >>   
   >> Stephan said a lot of things, on memory and without check, some of which   
   >> were demonstrably untrue. (For example, his alleged dinners with NAMBLA   
   >> were said to take place during Dylan's Rolling Thunder tour, which was   
   >> years before NAMBLA was even founded.) there was no reason to trust   
   >> his memory of any ot that.   
   >>   
   >>> NancyGene quoted posts Pickles had made in another forum, wherein he'd   
   >>> argued that "legal age" was a meaningless concept, that the majority of   
   >>> civilizations and cultures had no such age, that incest was not only   
   >>> common in other cultures, but was a desirable thing.   
   >>   
   >> Yes, through all this NG continued to troll Stephan, and posted a lot   
   >> of scurrilous claims about what he'd said (real, misprepresented, or   
   >> completely   
   >> made up). I didn't bother to check them, but (having been trolled by NG   
   >> myself) I would nt vouch for their accuracy.   
   >>   
   >> IIRC, Ginsberg said that "legal age" was an arbitrary concept, which of   
   >> course it is (just look at the USA, where the age of consent is   
   >> different from   
   >> state to state). he did not say that there was no age of cnnsent in   
   >> other   
   >> states, just that it varies. (For example, in much of the the Moslem   
   >> world,   
   >> the age at which a girl can be married is 9.) As for incest, NG found   
   >> and   
   >> quoted a statement Stephan made ridiculing "rape" charge laid aginat  a   
   >> mother   
   >> who'd had sex with her 17-year-old son.   
   >>   
   >>> Pickles not only defended his stance in said quotes, but further   
   >>> informed us that he'd had sex with 14-year old girls (impregnating one   
   >>> of them), and told us that he felt it was perfectly fine to have sex   
   >>> with a 13-year old...   
   >>   
   >> I remember him claiming to have had sex with a 14-year-old he had   
   >> married,   
   >> he could have mentioned a second one - I did warned you not to take   
   >> his statements at face value). He did point out that such marriages were   
   >> legal under traditional Jewish law (just as they are in traditional   
   >> Musim lae).   
   >> IOW, he made the mistake of trying to respond reasonably with people who   
   >> were   
   >> trolling him.   
   >>   
   >>> but that if you went for anyone younger, you were   
   >>> risking getting hurt because children that young were unable to maintain   
   >>> lasting romantic relationships.   
   >>   
   >> As I've told you, children who haven't reached puberty don't even have a   
   >> sex drive. (You, quoting some psychologist, disagreed.) And even   
   >> teenagers   
   >> above the age of consent are usually unable to maintain lasting romantic   
   >> relationships.   
   >>   
   >>> Nice guy, that Pickles.   
   >>   
   >>> Since you have always been jealous of Jim's popularity here,   
   >>   
   >> Now that is not true, Lying Michael. Jim and I had a great relationship   
   >> before you three formed Team Monkey and began to troll and flood the   
   >> group   
   >> with attacks on both Stefan and Will.   
   >>   
   >>> and since   
   >>> Pickles was a friend of your lifetime ally, Will Donkey,   
   >>   
   >> Now, that is absurd, Lying Michael. Will and I have never even met; and   
   >> while I had as good a relationship with him on the group as I did with   
   >> Jim, we were hardly conversing in those days.   
   >>   
   >>> you jumped into   
   >>> the fray as well.   
   >>   
   >>> You not only supported both Ginsberg and Pickles   
   >>   
   >> I agreed with both of them (and SCOTUS and most legal scholars) that   
   >> NAMBLA had a First Amendment right to talk about such things.   
   >>   
   >> , but   
   >>> you mistakenly claimed that NAMBLA had done more to support LGBT rights   
   >>> than any other organization.   
   >>   
   >> No, Lying Michael. I told you that I agreed that gay sex for anyone   
   >> above the age of consent should be legal, pointed out that NAMBLA was   
   >> the only   
   >> group in Canada campaigning for that, and even called you a "homophobe"   
   >> when   
   >> you insisted that it should continue to be illegal.   
   >>   
   >>> You later retracted that claim, but the   
   >>> damage to your reputation had already been done.   
   >>   
   >> No, Lying Michael. I still believe that gay sex between "children" above   
   >> the   
   >> age of consent should be legal, while you continue to lie and   
   >> misrepresent   
   >> that claim.   
   >>   
   >>> BTW: Who is MFH?  I'm having difficulty placing the initials.  Is it a   
   >>> typo?   
   >>   
   >> MFH = "My Father's House". That's a poem of mine you may have read.   
      
   Of course, now I remember that poem.   
      
   I'm rereading this, thanks for giving the full story, George.   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)