[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> "Days" while the subject of NastyGoon's was some days ("Yesterdays").   
   >> Both lines were similes comparing some days with newspapers. Reread   
   >> Will's line; it doesn't mention days and doesn't compare them with   
   >> anything.   
      
   "Yesterdays" in our poem is a concept.   
   >   
   > Again, Creeley's "Days" appears from that line to signify increments of   
   > time; whereas NancyGene's "Yesterdays" is a metaphor for "memories."   
   >   
   Absolutely.   
   >   
   >>>>> Otherwise, I'm just going to conclude that you've made   
   >>>>> the whole thing up.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> HarryLiar, you've *already* concluded that. Since I know I did not   
   >>>> "ma[k]e the whole thing up (see below), I prefer to examine the only   
   >>>> relevant evidence first-hand before leaping to any conclusions.   
   >>>   
   >>> Actually, George, you did make up at least a part of your initial   
   >>> statement.  The opening line of your initial post in this thread   
   >>> strongly implies that you are familiar with Mr. Creeley's poem:   
   >>   
   >> I thought I recognized it, which is why I turned to my source (which   
   >> wasn't my wife or daughter, BTW).   
      
   Another "gotcha" moment!   
   >   
   > A common characteristic of great literary lines is that they strike the   
   > reader as something they've heard before... something they've always   
   > known to be true.   
   Something they can relate to, to think about, to return to.   
      
   >   
   >>> "The opening line is very good. It's almost as good as the opening line   
   >>> of Robert Creeleys poem, "The Days Pile Up":"   
   >>>   
   >>> It turns out that you were only posturing.   
   >>   
   >> No, Lying Michael. It "turns out" that I don't currently have a copy of   
   >> the book, which is a completely different thing.   
   >   
   > I'm only trying to piece together the tiny bits of supposed truth that   
   > you grudgingly decide to reveal.   
   >   
   > You now seem to be implying that you once owned a copy of Creeley's   
   > poem.  That's the first I've heard of it (assuming that this even counts   
   > as having heard of it).   
   >   
   > Why don't you just come clean and tell us the whole story?   
      
   That would be a good idea, instead of entangling himself in more   
   explanations for why he "recognized" a line in a poem that doesn't seem   
   to exist but still insists that we somehow borrowed without attribution.   
   >   
   >>> You've also accused NancyGene of having plagiarized it *before* having   
   >>> even received (much less examined) the relevant evidence first-hand.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> And FWIW:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> A document search for "newspaper" turned up 2 results -- neither of   
   >>>>>>> which is even remotely similar to the line George Dance quoted.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Since "collected" usually implies "as complete as possible," it is safe   
   >>>>>>> to conclude that George Dance modified a line of NancyGene's poetry in   
   >>>>>>> order to falsely accuse her of plagiarism.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> So you're "concluding" the same thing your online friend was "assuming"   
   >>>>>> yesterday. My, my, who'd have expected that?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> If I wanted to accuse someone of plagiarism, I would provide proof.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Yet you and your NastyGoon "colleague" had no trouble accusing me of   
   >>>> forgery (a far worse accusation) on as little proof. So I have to say   
   >>>> that I don't believe you.   
   >>>>   
   >>> IIRC the first plagiarism charge leveled against you occurred long   
   >>> before either NancyGene or I became a part of the group.   
   >>   
   >> I see you're trying to change the subject again. If you want, I can open   
   >> a discussion of this new one on a different thread. Let me know.   
   >   
   > The last thing I want is another thread by you.   
   >   
   > You claimed that NancyGene and I have accused you of plagiarism in the   
   > past.  You didn't say *what* we claimed you'd plagiarized.  Since you're   
   > not coming forward with this information, as well, I told you the only   
   > such incidences that I remember, and asked you if you were referring to   
   > one of those.   
      
   There was the Pink Floyd song that Mr. Dance chopped up and presented as   
   his own poem, afterward claiming that he credited Pink Floyd on   
   Facebook!   
   >   
   > So cut the crap and just answer the question: What specific accusation/s   
   > are your referring to?   
   >   
   >>> I have a vague impression that you may have posted some other poem   
   >>> without attribution as well, after NancyGene and I had joined.  I could   
   >>> be mistaken on that count, and willingly admit as much.   
   Pink Floyd's "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" - The George Dance link   
   is:   
   https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/bzA1DrZGo   
   g/m/ldR4EOgMAgAJ   
     Note that George Dance presented the poem as his own and had even   
   published it!   
   Our uncovering of the theft is at:   
   https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/23_1oXVwu   
   g/m/Ebsf7PBjAAAJ   
   >>   
   >> I remember NastyGoon and you accusing me of plagiarism for posting a   
   >> cento, and giving the source information on the thread in another post   
   >> rather than on the poem itself. I also remember NastyGoon accusing a lot   
   >> of other people of plagiarism - as I say, that was their schtick.   
   And we provided enough proof to make our case.   
   >   
   > Thank you.   
   >   
   > It's good to have some vague idea of what you're talking about.  If you   
   > remember the name of that cento, it would be much easier for me to   
   > search for it, in order to refresh my memory regarding it.   
      
   "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" - Pure theft.   
   >   
   > From what *you've* written (above), it sounds like it was similar to the   
   > Cohen incident... and, therefore, most likely the second example that I   
   > claimed to have a very vague recollection of.   
   >   
   > IOW: I'd guessed correctly, only to be accused of attempting to change   
   > the subject and to be threatened with your opening another thread.   
   George Dance is sensitive when caught in his own web.   
   >   
   >>> Are either of these incidents what you are referring to?   
   >>   
   >> No, I'm referring to your accusation, in this thread, that I wrote   
   >> something and tried to pass it off as Robert Creeley's work.   
   Someone did.   
   >   
   > Don't bother.  As previously noted, since you have promised to reveal   
   > the source of this supposed poem (regardless of whether it appears in   
   > your forthcoming copy), I have decided to once more grant you the   
   > benefit of the doubt.   
   We don't.   
   >   
   >   
   >>>>> Since you repeatedly refuse to do so, I can only conclude that no such   
   >>>>> proof exists.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> As I've just noted: since you failed to find the line [and title of the]   
   >>>> poem I cited, you   
   >>>> (and your Nasty "colleague") have concluded that I forged it.   
   >>>   
   >>> No, George.  I came to that conclusion based on 10 years of having   
   >>> interacted with you here.   
   We don't have that long of an exposure to George Dance's postings, but   
   Mr. Dance paraphrases what other people write such that it changes the   
   meaning, has selective memory, argues to the side of a point, and uses   
   silly nicknames for people he doesn't like.   
   >>   
   >> You concluded that I forged it based on 10 years of seeing me forging   
   >> poems? Oh, do please give me one example.   
   >   
   > That is not what I said, George.  I said that based on my past (and   
   > current) exchanges with you, I believe that you are capable of doing   
   > *anything* to win an argument ("forgery") included.   
   And when he is wrong, he attacks the person who is right.   
   >   
   >   
   >>> At best, you have admitted that you only know about the poem from   
   >>> hearsay   
   >>   
   >> I did not, Lying Michael.   
   >>   
   >> , yet have quoted it from someone else's memory,   
   >>   
   >> Nor did I say that I quoted it from another person's memory, Lying   
   >> Michael.   
   >   
   > Just what did you say, George?   
      
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   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)