[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>> In fact, Karla's oft-quoted adage aside, one can *never* fully separate   
   >>> the two.   
   >>> For instance, all of the characters in any author's fictional novel are   
   >>> going to represent some aspect of the author.  Every poem stems from its   
   >>> author's imagination... regardless of what external persons and/or   
   >>> events might have inspired it.   
   >>   
   >> That sounds like another contradiction to me. Previously you said that   
   >> "every" character in a novel represents an aspect of the author, and now   
   >> you admit that at least some are actually inspired by other people. Of   
   >> course they're filtered through the author's imagination, but that's the   
   >> precisely the point I'm trying to make to you: that the poem is a work   
   >> of imagination, not simply a recitation of facts. The poem uses my   
   >> memories, but it's not based on my memories; it's based on my speakker's   
   >> memories as I imagined them to be.   
   >>   
   >>> Every literary work is similar to a   
   >>> dream construct in that regard; and like a dream construct, can be   
   >>> analyzed by a psychologist, a literary critic, or even the average   
   >>> reader.  Since "My Father's House" was based to a large extent on your   
   >>> own childhood experiences, it literally begs for a psychoanalytical   
   >>> reading.   
   >>   
   >> Forgive me if I use the term "psychobabble" again, but that's precisely   
   >> what your mention of "analyzing" dream constructs put into my head. It   
   >> reminded me of how your Dr. Freud came up with his theory of the Oedipus   
   >> Complex (which you and the other "doctor" claimed I suffered from) by   
   >> "analyzing" a child's dream about two giraffes.   
   >>   
   >>> Despite your claims of taking the reader through Little George's home   
   >>> (with the same floor plan as its real life counterpart) on a   
   >>> room-by-room basis, you jump from the kitchen to the garden.   
   >>   
   >> Your insistence on calling the speaker "George" is annoying (although it   
   >> is preferable to the "Boy George" nickname you previously borrowed for   
   >> him him and then insisted on calling me). I think you're just playing   
   >> with words to blur the very distinction between speaker and writer that   
   >> I'm trying to make with you. So I'm going to start calling him "Bob"   
   >> instead.   
   >>   
   >>> I am   
   >>> guessing that you'd originally written the garden stanza to come first   
   >>> within the body of the narrative, but had later switched it with the   
   >>> kitchen stanza based on the severity of the (potentially perceived)   
   >>> abuses.   
   >>   
   >> No, you guessed wrong again; the stanzas were not switched. The poem   
   >> switches from the kitchen to the garden because the speaker is looking   
   >> out the window, and in the floor plan of the house (which I've told you)   
   >> the kitchen window overlook s the garden at the back of it.   
   >>   
   >>> In this stanza, Little George is forced to spend his summers   
   >>> working in the garden -- while enviously watching the neighborhood   
   >>> children.  Because Little George describes their games as "mis   
   >>   
   >> You seem to have "frozen up", HarryLiar. That's not a big deal, of   
   >> course; I realize that responding to a long post takes time: one often   
   >> gets interrupted, even in mid-sentence. I mentioned it only because you   
   >> and "Dr." NastyGoon have pointed to it, when I did it, as evidence that   
   >> I suffered from not just psychological but various neurological   
   >> diseases.   
   >>   
   >>> How autobiographical is your poem?  Let's see.   
   >>>   
   >>> In the poem "Little George" states that the house came in a box, and   
   >>> that he helped his father assemble it,  You had said that in real life,   
   >>> your house came in a box, and that you helped your father assemble it.   
   >>>   
   >>> Little George tells how he was made to use the back door, had to take   
   >>> off his shoes (and things), and wait for permission to enter.  In real   
   >>> life, you had to use the back door, and remove your shoes before   
   >>> entering as well.  I don't recall whether you also had to wait for   
   >>> permission.   
   >>   
   >> True; in real life, the entire family removed their shoes on entering   
   >> the house, and that's a reason we used the back door (because it had a   
   >> landing where the shoes could be left. If I were writing an   
   >> autobiography, I'd mention it that way; but because I'm imagining a   
   >> fictional speaker's memories, I omitted that detail. As for needing to   
   >> have permission to enter; I recall a few times when I was chased back   
   >> outside, but it wasn't an everyday thing. Once again, I was not   
   >> recounting events as I remembered them, but events as how I'd imagine my   
   >> speaker remembering them.   
   >>>   
   >>> You have also stated that the house in the poem is laid out exactly your   
   >>> real life childhood house, and that you have intentionally chosen to   
   >>> take the reader through this house room by room.  You have also said   
   >>> that you intentionally chose to present each room along with a   
   >>> description of a (possibly abusive) memory associated with it.   
   >>   
   >> Yes I did. I gave you the latter description in the very post you're   
   >> replying to. Since you've buried it, it may be a good idea to move it up   
   >> here:   
   >>   
   >>>> S1 - the speaker revisits the house (after getting permission from   
   >>>> someone unspecified).   
   >>>> S2 - the speaker remembers his father building the house.   
   >>>> S3 - the speaker enters the back door, and remembers having to always   
   >>>> have had to use that door.   
   >>>> S4 - the speaker goes into the kitchen, and recalls having to wash   
   >>>> dishes.   
   >>>> S5 - the speaker looks out the kitchen window at the garden, and recalls   
   >>>> having to work in it when he'd rather be playing.   
   >>>> S6 - the speaker goes into the living room, and recalls not being   
   >>>> allowed to sit  wherever he chose.   
   >>>> S7 - the speaker thinks about his bedroom (but does not go there) and   
   >>>> remembers being sent there to be alone after dinner until bedtime.   
   >>>> S8 - the speaker continues to think about his bedroom, and remembers   
   >>>> having an  early bedtime and being subject to corporal punishment.   
   >>>> S9 - the speaker wishes he could burn the house down.   
   >>   
   >>> The first room in Little George's house is the kitchen.  Little George   
   >>> associates this room with having to wash dishes, while looking out the   
   >>> window and wishing that he was some other place.  In real life, you were   
   >>> also made to wash dishes.  This is not uncommon.  Most children 50 years   
   >>> ago were given chores to perform.  I had chores to do as well.  The   
   >>> difference is that I was paid a weekly allowance for doing them, and had   
   >>> the option of quitting my "job" at my discretion.   
   >>   
   >> Unlike you, I did not receive an allowance, and I was not able to walk   
   >> away and leave the dishes dirty when I wanted to do something else.   
   >> Unlike both you and Bob, I washed dishes twice a day with my sister (and   
   >> later with one of my step-nieces). That last is another detail I changed   
   >> for dramatic effect.   
   >>   
   >>> In spite of your claim that you were taking the reader on a tour of   
   >>> Little George's house (which has the same floorplan as your real life   
   >>> childhood home), the narrative jumps from the kitchen to the garden.   
   >>> I'm guessing that the garden stanza originally came before the kitchen   
   >>> one, but that you later rearranged the stanzas to present the supposed   
   >>> "abuses" in order of severity (as you have recently stated).  Little   
   >>> George spends his summers working in the garden, all the while envious   
   >>> of the neighborhood children who are free to play at their will.  The   
      
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   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)