From: wthyde1953@gmail.com   
      
   Robert Carnegie wrote:   
   > On 13/10/2025 19:30, William Hyde wrote:   
   >> For once, Jewish morale broke and tens of thousands converted.   
   >> Conversions prior to this time, even under threat of violence, had   
   >> been rare.   
   >>   
   >> Now, while many of these conversions were or became sincere, at least   
   >> in the second generation, only an idiot or a religious fanatic would   
   >> expect them all to have been sincere, or even most of them. The   
   >> Swedish king Gustavus Adolphus laughed at the idea that a forced   
   >> conversion would be sincere, but the Spanish were not that enlightened.   
   >>   
   >> So their monstrously evil treatment by the inquisition was not in fact   
   >> a punishment for sin, but the continuation of earlier persecution by a   
   >> more formal process.   
   >>   
   >> The more so as these people, freed from the restrictions under which   
   >> they had suffered, easily out-competed the old Christians, taking   
   >> leading roles in commerce, government, and even the church. Plus   
   >> marrying into many old wealthy families.  Naturally this caused   
   >> resentment, and when the secret of their continuing Jewish faith got   
   >> out, as was inevitable, a special, "Spanish" inquisition was the answer.   
   >>   
   >> Nor did those sincere converts escape.  After a few generations of the   
   >> inquisition, having any Jewish ancestry, however remote, brought you   
   >> to the inquisition's attention.  You were a "New Christian", and even   
   >> the slightest accusation of an infraction (like turning down a piece   
   >> of pork at dinner, or bathing on a Friday) could bring you to their   
   >> dungeons.   
   >   
   > "These people" sounds like a preface to a   
   > racist bit.   
   >   
   > And in my opinion, religious practice under   
   > coercion is to be considered genuine,   
      
   You are of course entitled to your opinion, which makes a mockery of   
   belief.  But then, as I think belief in gods is absurd, mock on.   
      
   But most believers disagree rather strongly with you.   
      
      
      
     from   
   > the point of view of gods at least, although   
   > of course it's likely to continue only as   
   > long as coercion continues, unless the gods   
   > live up to expectations.  Gods themselves are   
   > portrayed as using force to compel worship,   
   > with terrible punishment for heterodoxy.   
   > All of which is what religion usually is.   
      
   Those who run the churches really don't care if you believe or not, just   
   as long as you behave as if you do, pay the taxes, do your bit to   
   oppress the open unbelievers.  Naturally they portray their gods as   
   being as hypocritical as they are.  They just don't see a problem with   
   that as long as the gold keeps flowing in.   
      
   Which is what makes Gustavus Adolphus remarkable in this.   
      
   >   
   > And since human nature also is what it is,   
   > if a god doesn't want people to be bullied into   
   > the god's preferred form of worship, then the   
   > god should clearly say this.   
      
      
   Man proposes, fantasy figure disposes.   
      
      
   William Hyde   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)