From: psperson@old.netcom.invalid   
      
   On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 20:30:47 -0800, Bobbie Sellers   
    wrote:   
      
   >   
   >   
   >On 1/17/26 18:07, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:   
   >> On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 00:28:27 -0000 (UTC), Don wrote:   
   >>    
   >>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> He was shown the instruments of torture. If that’s not asking him   
   >>>> to make a choice (in a not-so-subtle way, at that), I don’t know   
   >>>> what is.   
   >>>   
   >>> Careful there, lest you look like a Voltaire thumping scientistic   
   >>> disciple who buys this bush-league bullscat ...   
   >>    
   >> Yes, the Christian revisionism is alive and well, and still trying to   
   >> deny that they ever tried to muzzle Galileo. They did.   
   >   
   >	The RC Church is made of of Human beings.  Human beings make mistakes.   
   >They thought they were trying to save Galileo from serious error and    
   >they were   
   >wrong and have now admitted it.   
      
   The RC church claims to be run by the Vicar of Christ, who is   
   infallible.   
      
   Weasle-wording won't work.    
      
   And "tried to muzzle Galileo" is not necessarily a major problem,   
   provided it refers to keeping him from spreading his beliefs, since   
   Freedom of Speech did not exist at the time. And possibly not tenure   
   either. It is pointless to apply to particular events of the past the   
   standards of today as if the standards of today were somehow the only   
   standards possible.   
      
   At least, not where the uneducated masses were concerned. Before the   
   Counter-Reformation, the old Roman tradition of letting the   
   (relatively few) educated men think and say what they liked as long as   
   they kept it to themselves prevailed.   
      
   And I don't know that Voltaire is particularly trustworthy on this   
   sort of issue. He was rather ... biased ... IIRC.   
      
   It can be hard to tell. Even reading the source isn't always   
   definitive: I read Pascal's /Provincial Letters/ as part of the set   
   known as The Great Books of the Western World/ and learning nothing   
   about Jansenism (which he was defending). Interestingly, the online   
   Catholic Encyclopedia (which, being from the 1930s, was a good guide   
   to the Roman Catholicism in which JRR Tolkien was instructed) was no   
   clearer (except for the fact that every good RC hated them).   
      
   What is amazing is how tone-deaf the scientists are. You would think   
   that, after their persecution of Wagener, they would realize that   
   dogmatism and bad behavior are /not/ the prerogatives of religion, but   
   are freely available to anyone.   
   --    
   "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,   
   Who evil spoke of everyone but God,   
   Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)