From: psperson@old.netcom.invalid   
      
   On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 09:58:44 -0800, Bobbie Sellers   
    wrote:   
      
   >   
   >   
   >On 1/18/26 08:50, Paul S Person wrote:   
   >> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 20:30:47 -0800, Bobbie Sellers   
   >>  wrote:   
   >>    
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> On 1/17/26 18:07, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:   
   >>>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 00:28:27 -0000 (UTC), Don wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> He was shown the instruments of torture. If that’s not asking him   
   >>>>>> to make a choice (in a not-so-subtle way, at that), I don’t know   
   >>>>>> what is.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Careful there, lest you look like a Voltaire thumping scientistic   
   >>>>> disciple who buys this bush-league bullscat ...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Yes, the Christian revisionism is alive and well, and still trying to   
   >>>> deny that they ever tried to muzzle Galileo. They did.   
   >>>   
   >>> 	The RC Church is made of of Human beings.  Human beings make mistakes.   
   >>> They thought they were trying to save Galileo from serious error and   
   >>> they were   
   >>> wrong and have now admitted it.   
   >>    
   >> The RC church claims to be run by the Vicar of Christ, who is   
   >> infallible.   
   >   
   >	Did I not say they are human and make lots of mistakes expecially when   
   >they feel the organization is being challenged?   
      
   You did, and that is the exact opposite of my point.   
      
   >> Weasle-wording won't work.   
   >   
   >	Sure it does just listen to CBS News.   
      
   I don't do TV as such. I do use a TV to watch DVDs/BDs.   
       
   >> And "tried to muzzle Galileo" is not necessarily a major problem,   
   >> provided it refers to keeping him from spreading his beliefs, since   
   >> Freedom of Speech did not exist at the time. And possibly not tenure   
   >> either. It is pointless to apply to particular events of the past the   
   >> standards of today as if the standards of today were somehow the only   
   >> standards possible.   
   >   
   >	The standards of yesterday may have been more tolerant but today no   
   >tolerance for deviationists from the Trump executive orders is to be    
   >allowed.   
   >Physically intersexual individuals no longer exist due to an early EO.   
      
   This has nothing to do with my point: ordering Galileo to be silent   
   (ie, to not spread his beliefs) was not a violation of the 1st   
   Amendment (because there was no such thing) and possibly not of tenure   
   either.   
      
   >> At least, not where the uneducated masses were concerned. Before the   
   >> Counter-Reformation, the old Roman tradition of letting the   
   >> (relatively few) educated men think and say what they liked as long as   
   >> they kept it to themselves prevailed.   
   >>    
   >> And I don't know that Voltaire is particularly trustworthy on this   
   >> sort of issue. He was rather ... biased ... IIRC.   
   >   
   >	Definitively.   
   >>    
   >> It can be hard to tell. Even reading the source isn't always   
   >> definitive: I read Pascal's /Provincial Letters/ as part of the set   
   >> known as The Great Books of the Western World/ and learning nothing   
   >> about Jansenism (which he was defending). Interestingly, the online   
   >> Catholic Encyclopedia (which, being from the 1930s, was a good guide   
   >> to the Roman Catholicism in which JRR Tolkien was instructed) was no   
   >> clearer (except for the fact that every good RC hated them).   
   >   
   >	All those confusing schools of thought were to be eliminated but many   
   >thrived.   
   >   
   >>    
   >> What is amazing is how tone-deaf the scientists are. You would think   
   >> that, after their persecution of Wagener, they would realize that   
   >> dogmatism and bad behavior are /not/ the prerogatives of religion, but   
   >> are freely available to anyone.   
   >   
   >	Indeed they are freely available to everyone but when you have a   
   >multi-million dollar corporation behind you with loads of voluteers your   
   >dogmatism and bad behavior are reinforced tremendously.  But that is   
   >what you get with most forms of organized religion.  Even relatively   
   >unorganized religion can lead people to folly.   
      
   Multimillion dollar funding and lots of members applies to modern   
   science just as much as religion.    
      
   Well, it did before DOGE, anyway.    
   	   
   Noting that some religions have done this some of the time (and others   
   a lot of the time, at least in their dreams) does not alter the fact   
   that science has been known to behave just as badly.   
      
   People who cannot understand this are candidates for anti-religious   
   fanaticism. Of which this thread (not just you) is redolent.   
      
   >	I think it is all due to the influence of Eris/Discordia in human   
   >affairs.  Discordians remain relatively unorganized aside from the   
   >Illuminati which may show up from time to time.  LDD.   
   --    
   "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,   
   Who evil spoke of everyone but God,   
   Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)