From: bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com
On 1/19/26 08:23, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 21:41:02 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/2026 1:26 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 09:58:44 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>
>>>> Did I not say they are human and make lots of mistakes expecially
>>>> when they feel the organization is being challenged?
>>>
>>> But they claimed then, and claim now, to be following the dictates of
>>> a deity who cannot make mistakes.
>>
>> The usual hand-wavium response to that is "we simple humans don't
>> understand God's plan". In other words, its all our fault, never God's.
>
> Which is almost correct.
>
> What we don't understand is that God works through secondary causes,
> and secondary causes can fail. So what God wants and what God gets can
> be two different things.
>
> Aquinas has an argument showing this, arguing first that God has an
> intended gender for each baby and that, when twins appear, God wanted
> them to have the same gender.
>
> Which means that the existence of boy-girl pairs shows the what God
> wants and what God gets can be two different things.
>
> Sadly, his proof depends on astrology (God twiddles with the positions
> of the stars to select gender). This was so doubtful in his day that
> he apologizes for it, pointing out that there is one instance where a
> heavenly body clearly affects the mundane world (he is, of course,
> talking about tides and the Moon).
>
> But the principle apparently goes back at least to Augustine.
>
> As to being "our fault" -- the entire point of Gen 3 (the Fall) is
> that it is, indeed, /all/ our fault. "For as by one man came death, so
> also by one Man came the Resurrection fromt the dead" (or something
> like that; I admit that I am quoting from Handel's /Messiah/ and doing
> it from memory -- but original in in, IIRC, Romans).
Well I don't really believe that anyone truely dead rises again and
death is final. No vampires, no zombies except drug confused workers
Faery is what we hope happens to our ancestors but the doors into
hills are the entrances to tombs when they are not mines.
Again we deal with the myth of the Fall of Mankind but it is but a myth.
We fell from semi-nomadic bands of hunters and gatherers to becoming
farmers.
Moved into primitive cities and then had to defend the lands we tilled
from the
less? advanced nomads. Whoops we have wars and rumors of wars.
Oh and the apple tasted good so we began to cultivate.
But death is the natural thing and humans never had anything but
brief lives so the myth is ridiculous on its face as are any form of
immortality.
Oh we might live on in a spirit world but the material world will be an
endless attraction as detailed in the holy scriptures of the East. But when
there is no physical basis for thought and memory, i.e. body with
sufficiently
complicated brain and sensory organs, you cannot blame the spirits from
coming on back (and remember to go to the blue light).
Bodies of all sorts of living things are only temporary arrangements
of substances and all of present life is built on the death of countless
organisms.
The religious experience and the true physical orgasm equal the
strong hallucinogenic drug experience; all are subjective experiences
without the need for supernatural intervention. So whatever a person
may believe is reinforced in sexual and or drug experience as well as
by the countless repetitions in religious households and in church
attendance.
Well that is my ever so humble opinion and I only have
my own subjective experiences as evidence for that.
bliss - profitless prophet...
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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