From: bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com
On 1/20/26 12:02, William Hyde wrote:
> Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 18:38:49 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/19/2026 8:23 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 21:41:02 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/18/2026 1:26 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 09:58:44 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did I not say they are human and make lots of mistakes expecially
>>>>>>> when they feel the organization is being challenged?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they claimed then, and claim now, to be following the dictates of
>>>>>> a deity who cannot make mistakes.
>>>>>
>>>>> The usual hand-wavium response to that is "we simple humans don't
>>>>> understand God's plan". In other words, its all our fault, never
>>>>> God's.
>>>>
>>>> Which is almost correct.
>>>>
>>>> What we don't understand is that God works through secondary causes,
>>>> and secondary causes can fail. So what God wants and what God gets can
>>>> be two different things.
>>>>
>>> But that would make God fallible which if emphatically NOT what the
>>> Christian churches teach. The bible has some passage about God noting
>>> the fall of every sparrow and such, so no way God does not get what God
>>> wants.
>>
>> It makes God /disappointed/.
>
>
> God has chosen to work through secondary causes, which may fail. Thus
> god has chosen to allow failure, when he could have avoided it.
>
> There's no getting away from omnipotence.
>
> The typical result is to try, try again.
>> And you may want to review the different types of "causes" in
>> classical thought; we tend to only use one.
>>
>> A lot of formal theology dates back to Aristotle's views on what a God
>> must be and how a God must behave. Aristotle's musings are not
>> authoritative, at least for Protestants.
>>
>> But the real issue here is whether or not God is /responsible/ for
>> evil. Per Gen 3, he is not: Man is.
Man choses what he considers evil. Death is widely considered evil
and some blame Coyote and some Satan but we know from palentology
and experience that Life is the prinicpal cause of Death and on those
deaths in the distant past before mankind arose that life today depends.
Illness was attributed to demonic influence or witchcraft but these
days we have a better idea which is shown by the idea of microscopic
life leading to cures, prevention and healing in many cases.
Prayers to avoid illness never seemed to work.
>
> Reminds me of bullies throughout the ages. It's always the victim's fault.
>
> William Hyde
>
This is all reasoning from mythological stories.
If there is a G*d responsible for the creation of the universe then
that G*d is likely to be beyond our comprehension just as the cosmologists
are unable to figure out what came before the creation of the Universe.
We know from science that the earth was assembled out of previous
conglomerations of matter and that a Nova preceded the whole thing
maybe wiping out civilizations that we might some day recognize the
evidence of having existed but just the core of the planet represents
the death of a star. I doubt it started out as ionized iron as we see
in the Ring Nebula. Maybe by now the iron there has condensed into
some planetary cores.
If G*d exists beyond our comprehension then it is blasphemy to
speak of G*d's attributes. We should be grateful and joyful to have
had however a brief a time as conscious entities on this planet.
bliss - yes I think about pointless things a lot.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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