From: atropos@mac.com   
      
   On Jan 25, 2026 at 6:28:04 AM PST, "Rhino"    
   wrote:   
      
   > I had a look on YouTube for information about the possibility of   
   > scrapping jury trials in the UK and got some of the basics. One report   
   > said it would be for trials where the likely sentence for a conviction   
   > would result in less than 3 years in prison; another said it would be   
   > for all crimes other than rape, murder and manslaughter. (Those criteria   
   > look quite different to me but I suppose there is significant overlap).   
   > The basic rationale is to address a very large backlog in court cases.   
      
   Yes, this frequently happens here, too. It can basically be summed up as, "the   
   government is too burdened so you must lose your rights to accommodate it".   
      
   That's how we got all these rebuttable presumptions in U.S. criminal law. Like   
   "possession with intent to sell drugs". Forget the presumption of innocence.   
   That's too much of a pain in the ass for the government. Unless they caught   
   you actually selling someone drugs, it was too difficult and inconvenient for   
   the government to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you're a drug dealer,   
   so they created the rebuttable presumption that you're a drug dealer if you   
   just have a certain amount of drugs in your possession. The law just presumes   
   you're guilty of selling drugs unless you can prove you're not by clear and   
   convincing evidence.   
      
   Our criminal codes are replete with these rebuttable presumptions where the   
   government presumes you guilty and makes you prove your innocence. And for   
   some reason, this is perfectly fine with the courts.   
      
   This push to eliminate jury trials in England is more of the same. "Trials   
   take too long and cost us money so we're going to get rid of them because the   
   system is more important than the citizen." Once again emphasizing the   
   importance of a constitution that guarantees rights and constrains the   
   government. Although, as evidenced by our rebuttable presumptions, that works   
   only so long as you don't have all three branches of government colluding to   
   violate it.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)