XPost: rec.arts.movies.current-films   
   From: YourName@YourISP.com   
      
   On 2017-12-18 21:38:58 +0000, TT said:   
      
   > Your Name kirjoitti 18.12.2017 klo 22:11:   
   >> On 2017-12-18 16:44:03 +0000, TT said:   
   >>> Your Name kirjoitti 10.12.2017 klo 9:43:   
   >>>> The latest Star Wars movie has a young Force user seeking help from an   
   >>>> older Jedi Master   
   >>>   
   >>> Would have been pretty lame if there wasn't.   
   >>>   
   >>> The complaint for TFA was that Rey shouldn't have mastered the force   
   >>> yet and there shouldn't have been a death star. Now your complaint is   
   >>> that Rey wasn't fully learned   
   >>   
   >> I never said she should be fully trained.   
   >   
   > My point was that with TFA Rey's Force ability without formal training   
   > was a problem for many... and now when there's master-apprentice   
   > relationship then that's not good enough either... seems that people   
   > are displeased what ever the story is...   
      
   It's not the "master-apprentice relationship" that's the problem ...   
   that's simply one of the many things that mark this movie as simply yet   
   another lazy rehash of the originals.   
      
      
      
   >>> and that you'd apparently wanted a story about a death star.   
   >>   
   >> Where did I ever say anything about wanting "a story about a death   
   >> star"!? Oh, that's right, nowhere at all. We didn't even want nor need   
   >> the ridiculous "Death Star" in JarJar Abrams' silly previous reboot   
   >> movie either.  :-\   
   >   
   > Fair enough, I guess I was trying to say that at least there wasn't a   
   > death star plot this time around.   
      
   Nope, but there was a lightsabre battle in the Empero... err, Snoke's   
   throne room. Just yet another of the many many knock-off scenes in the   
   supposedly "new episodes".   
      
      
      
   >>> If you're a Star Wars fan it's really hard to see how one wouldn't like   
   >>> this film.   
   >>   
   >> The point was that this film, just like the previous Episode, is mostly   
   >> a lazy rip-off of the original movies.   
   >   
   > But you can argue the same about ROTJ with its Death Star etc.   
      
   Only in that there was another Death Star space battle. The rest of it   
   is pretty much new stuff.   
      
      
      
   >> There's a bunch of brainless numbnuts in Hollyweird who haven't got the   
   >> talent nor creativity to actually create a sensible movie that fits in   
   >> with an existing franchise.   
   >   
   > I agree.   
   > I don't agree however that this director lacks creativity, at least he   
   > didn't with "Looper", imo.   
   >   
   >> There's also an idiotic belief, which has been around for a lot longer,   
   >> that fans want just more of the exact same thing. A lazy-ass re-hash is   
   >> NOT what actual fans ever want. We've already "been there, done that,   
   >> got the T-shirt" (and the mug, action figures, collectible cards, ...).   
   >> "Jurassic Park" is doing the same thing too.   
   >>   
   >   
   > You just said above "that fits the original franchise". Once again some   
   > people are not happy if the film follows the franchise formula and some   
   > are not happy if it doesn't.   
      
   There's no need to lazily rehash what has been done already. It is   
   possible to create new stories within the universe that are actually   
   *new*.   
      
      
      
   >> "Rogue One", although it did have some flaws, was a MUCH MUCH MUCH   
   >> better movie than either of the new Episodes ... because it was a new   
   >> story, with new characters (although it did stupidly shoe-horn in   
   >> existing ones towards the end). The Saga should have been left alone as   
   >> a six-part series that finished with a 'happy ever after' ending.   
   >   
   > I totally disagree with Rogue One... I thought characterization was   
   > rather weak and the film in general didn't fit the tone of previous   
   > films. I agree it was different from other films of the franchise but I   
   > don't think that was a good thing in this case, it didn't FEEL or look   
   > like Star Wars to me.   
      
   I didn't say it was a good film in itself, simply that it's much better   
   than either of the lazy rehashes Episode VII or VIII. At least "Rogue   
   One" tells different story, rather than simply ripping off what has   
   already been done in the original movies.   
      
      
      
   >> With JarJar Abrams coming back for Episode IX, we'll just get more of   
   >> the same lazy-ass rehashing, as well as probably his trademark   
   >> "ability" to screw it up so it makes no sense ... and then walk away to   
   >> let someone else try to clean up the mess.   
   >   
   > JJ Abrams didn't create a mess at all with EP 7... it was a basic   
   > introduction to new characters leaving much open for Johnson whose film   
   > was actually more messy and really left JJ with a formidable task.   
   >   
   > I'm happy that JJ will be back to tie the story together hopefully with   
   > similar elegant simplicity he displayed with TFA. I disliked his Star   
   > Trek films but that's another story.   
      
   JJ Abrams always makes a mess, even when he starts off okay   
   (relatively). He screwed up Lost, Star Trek, Alias, Felicity, Fringe   
   ... nothing he ever does makes sense.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)