XPost: rec.arts.movies.current-films   
   From: ascii@dprk.kp   
      
   Your Name kirjoitti 19.12.2017 klo 22:03:   
   > On 2017-12-19 11:03:37 +0000, TT said:   
   >> Your Name kirjoitti 19.12.2017 klo 2:22:   
   >>> Nope, but there was a lightsabre battle in the Empero... err, Snoke's   
   >>> throne room. Just yet another of the many many knock-off scenes in   
   >>> the supposedly "new episodes".   
   >>   
   >> That was a definite 'callback' yes... I liked it.   
   >>   
   >> But it was also different than in ROTJ where Vader turns from the dark   
   >> side... here Kylo Ren becomes more evil, takes Snoke's place...   
   >>   
   >> It was also visually nice looking (red)... and I also liked to see Rey   
   >> & Ren fight in unison against Pretorian Guards (red).   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>>>> If you're a Star Wars fan it's really hard to see how one wouldn't   
   >>>>>> like this film.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> The point was that this film, just like the previous Episode, is   
   >>>>> mostly a lazy rip-off of the original movies.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> But you can argue the same about ROTJ with its Death Star etc.   
   >>>   
   >>> Only in that there was another Death Star space battle. The rest of   
   >>> it is pretty much new stuff.   
   >>   
   >> Well, one can make a film completely unrelated to Star Wars and call   
   >> it Star Wars... no Jedi etc. If they named "Chappie" Star Wars episode   
   >> x, it certainly would be different... but not really SW...   
   >>   
   >> Star Wars has the Jedi, Force etc and it's about good vs evil, without   
   >> those aspects it would be easy to make it different but it wouldn't   
   >> really be SW... Lucas' prequels were ALL ABOUT callbacks, the very   
   >> plots   themselves were one big callback to earlier SW films. So   
   >> accusing only new films on references to past films is not right.   
   >   
   > There's an infinite number of stories within the Star Wars universe that   
   > could be told. They don't even remotely have to have a Death Star, an   
   > good Jedi battling evil Sith in the throne room, etc.   
   >   
   > The animated Star Wars Rebels shows how such a thing could be done ...   
   > at least it did to begin with, then it also started getting lazy and   
   > dragging in all the same old characters again.   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
      
   I've watched some of Rebels... ok not great imo. Clone Wars was pretty   
   good though... but would not necessarily make a good film (and it didn't).   
      
   Clone Wars was of course all about callbacks, good vs evil,   
   master-apprentice etc. I don't think you can make Star Wars without that   
   stuff.   
      
   >>>>> "Rogue One", although it did have some flaws, was a MUCH MUCH MUCH   
   >>>>> better movie than either of the new Episodes ... because it was a   
   >>>>> new story, with new characters (although it did stupidly shoe-horn   
   >>>>> in existing ones towards the end). The Saga should have been left   
   >>>>> alone as a six-part series that finished with a 'happy ever after'   
   >>>>> ending.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I totally disagree with Rogue One... I thought characterization was   
   >>>> rather weak and the film in general didn't fit the tone of previous   
   >>>> films. I agree it was different from other films of the franchise   
   >>>> but I don't think that was a good thing in this case, it didn't FEEL   
   >>>> or look like Star Wars to me.   
   >>>   
   >>> I didn't say it was a good film in itself, simply that it's much   
   >>> better than either of the lazy rehashes Episode VII or VIII. At least   
   >>> "Rogue One" tells different story, rather than simply ripping off   
   >>> what has already been done in the original movies.   
   >>   
   >> I'm not sure if it's a different story... as it was about death star   
   >> plans. It reminded more about standard war film than Star Wars film.   
   >>   
   >> I think the ending was ripped big time from Von Trier's "Melancholia"   
   >   
   > The point was that Episodes VII and VIII lazily ripped off most of the   
   > original movies (oh dear, there's an orphan on a desert planet who is   
   > really a Jedi, a large 'Death Star' destroying planets, a black-masked   
   > baddie, they visit a criminal hangout and a nightclub, a big land battle   
   > on a snowy/salty white planet... etc., etc., etc.). There's very little   
   > that's actually new in either of them. (Not really surprising with   
   > lazy-ass JarJar Abrams in charge.)   
   >   
      
   Abrams wasn't in charge for the 8. Rian Johnson wrote and directed it.   
      
   I think 7 and 8 were quite different... and thus my claim that if you   
   disliked both then your real problem is probably not liking Rey, and   
   these plot grievances are just an excuse for that.   
      
   > Rogue One was at least a new story (within the Star Wars franchise), and   
   > it makes a better part of the overall story than simply rehahsing /   
   > rebooting what has already been done just to be cash-in exercise.   :-(   
   >   
   > Lots of people are saying the same thing, including Mark Hamill.   
   >   
   >   
      
   I haven't seen him say that, there's a popular youtube video which   
   claims that Mark says he hates TLJ - but when watching the clip he says   
   nothing of the kind.   
      
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