XPost: rec.arts.movies.current-films   
   From: YourName@YourISP.com   
      
   On 2017-12-19 20:24:54 +0000, TT said:   
      
   > Your Name kirjoitti 19.12.2017 klo 22:03:   
   >> On 2017-12-19 11:03:37 +0000, TT said:   
   >>> Your Name kirjoitti 19.12.2017 klo 2:22:   
   >>>> Nope, but there was a lightsabre battle in the Empero... err, Snoke's   
   >>>> throne room. Just yet another of the many many knock-off scenes in the   
   >>>> supposedly "new episodes".   
   >>>   
   >>> That was a definite 'callback' yes... I liked it.   
   >>>   
   >>> But it was also different than in ROTJ where Vader turns from the dark   
   >>> side... here Kylo Ren becomes more evil, takes Snoke's place...   
   >>>   
   >>> It was also visually nice looking (red)... and I also liked to see Rey   
   >>> & Ren fight in unison against Pretorian Guards (red).   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>>>>> If you're a Star Wars fan it's really hard to see how one wouldn't like   
   >>>>>>> this film.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> The point was that this film, just like the previous Episode, is mostly   
   >>>>>> a lazy rip-off of the original movies.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> But you can argue the same about ROTJ with its Death Star etc.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Only in that there was another Death Star space battle. The rest of it   
   >>>> is pretty much new stuff.   
   >>>   
   >>> Well, one can make a film completely unrelated to Star Wars and call it   
   >>> Star Wars... no Jedi etc. If they named "Chappie" Star Wars episode x,   
   >>> it certainly would be different... but not really SW...   
   >>>   
   >>> Star Wars has the Jedi, Force etc and it's about good vs evil, without   
   >>> those aspects it would be easy to make it different but it wouldn't   
   >>> really be SW... Lucas' prequels were ALL ABOUT callbacks, the very   
   >>> plots   themselves were one big callback to earlier SW films. So   
   >>> accusing only new films on references to past films is not right.   
   >>   
   >> There's an infinite number of stories within the Star Wars universe   
   >> that could be told. They don't even remotely have to have a Death Star,   
   >> an good Jedi battling evil Sith in the throne room, etc.   
   >>   
   >> The animated Star Wars Rebels shows how such a thing could be done ...   
   >> at least it did to begin with, then it also started getting lazy and   
   >> dragging in all the same old characters again.   
   >   
   > I've watched some of Rebels... ok not great imo. Clone Wars was pretty   
   > good though... but would not necessarily make a good film (and it   
   > didn't).   
   >   
   > Clone Wars was of course all about callbacks, good vs evil,   
   > master-apprentice etc. I don't think you can make Star Wars without   
   > that stuff.   
      
   "Rogue One" managed without an Master-Apprentice ... in fact it had   
   almost no Force stuff in it at all (the exception was the blind   
   character).   
      
      
      
      
   >>>>>> "Rogue One", although it did have some flaws, was a MUCH MUCH MUCH   
   >>>>>> better movie than either of the new Episodes ... because it was a new   
   >>>>>> story, with new characters (although it did stupidly shoe-horn in   
   >>>>>> existing ones towards the end). The Saga should have been left alone as   
   >>>>>> a six-part series that finished with a 'happy ever after' ending.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I totally disagree with Rogue One... I thought characterization was   
   >>>>> rather weak and the film in general didn't fit the tone of previous   
   >>>>> films. I agree it was different from other films of the franchise but I   
   >>>>> don't think that was a good thing in this case, it didn't FEEL or look   
   >>>>> like Star Wars to me.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I didn't say it was a good film in itself, simply that it's much better   
   >>>> than either of the lazy rehashes Episode VII or VIII. At least "Rogue   
   >>>> One" tells different story, rather than simply ripping off what has   
   >>>> already been done in the original movies.   
   >>>   
   >>> I'm not sure if it's a different story... as it was about death star   
   >>> plans. It reminded more about standard war film than Star Wars film.   
   >>>   
   >>> I think the ending was ripped big time from Von Trier's "Melancholia"   
   >>   
   >> The point was that Episodes VII and VIII lazily ripped off most of the   
   >> original movies (oh dear, there's an orphan on a desert planet who is   
   >> really a Jedi, a large 'Death Star' destroying planets, a black-masked   
   >> baddie, they visit a criminal hangout and a nightclub, a big land   
   >> battle on a snowy/salty white planet... etc., etc., etc.). There's very   
   >> little that's actually new in either of them. (Not really surprising   
   >> with lazy-ass JarJar Abrams in charge.)   
   >   
   > Abrams wasn't in charge for the 8. Rian Johnson wrote and directed it.   
      
   Abrams was still "Executive Producer" ... whether he actually did   
   anything is a different question though.   
      
      
      
   >> Rogue One was at least a new story (within the Star Wars franchise),   
   >> and it makes a better part of the overall story than simply rehahsing /   
   >> rebooting what has already been done just to be cash-in exercise.     
   >> :-(   
   >>   
   >> Lots of people are saying the same thing, including Mark Hamill.   
   >   
   > I haven't seen him say that, there's a popular youtube video which   
   > claims that Mark says he hates TLJ - but when watching the clip he says   
   > nothing of the kind.   
      
   I never said that he said he "hated it" ... but he has said that he   
   thinks the Prequel Trilogy was better due to having it's own story,   
   rather than rehashing what has already been done. There are numerous   
   YouTube clips and websites with quotes.   
      
       Star Wars creator George Lucas' oft-maligned prequel trilogy is   
       a source of divisiveness for fans, but franchise veteran Mark   
       Hamill has praised the films, saying they offered a unique   
       experience.   
      
       "What I thought was great about the prequels was the different   
       technology that I had never seen before," Hamill told Metro.   
       "All that CGI. And the fact that [Lucas] wasn't trying to do   
       the same experience all over again."   
      
       The flashy trio of films featured characters from the original   
       movies - Yoda, Obi-Wan, Chewbacca, a younger Darth Vader, and   
       perennial companions R2-D2 and C-3PO - but they explored their   
       own path, instead of tapping into the source of what made   
       A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi so   
       popular.   
      
       "I thought The Force Awakens did that more than the early ones,   
       because it had that the girl from a different planet, the death   
       star, the Cantina sequence," Hamill said of director J.J.   
       Abrams' 2015 revival of the long running franchise.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)