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|    rec.audio.tubes    |    Tube-based amplifiers... that go to 11    |    52,877 messages    |
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|    Message 52,120 of 52,877    |
|    patrick-turner to All    |
|    Re: phase shift audio oscillator 5Hz to     |
|    14 Sep 13 05:29:00    |
      From: info@turneraudio.com.au              Phil mentioned the drive mech for the variable tuning cap in the wien bridge       oscilator he has....              > The shaft is driven by a backlash free, 60:1 worm reduction drive and a        > 200 point scale.        >        > Verrry silky.               ** Ambiguity fix.               The 200 point scale is engraved on a 4.4 inch dia steel disk that rotates        with the worm drive, making 6000 setting points per range. 30 turns x 200 =       6000.              Well Phil, your dial certainly seems nice by what you say, but how accurate       are the 6,000 points on the dial? It would seem that the dial length around       the 4.4 inches is roughly 13.8 inches long, 351mm, so distance between each       "point" is 351 / 6,000 = 0.       058mm and too small to be useful.              And so often, a maker produces a dial in a prototype and then the cap used for       production is slightly different to the prototype and dial is the same, and       maybe a bit wrong.               I like to see no more more or less than 3mm between easy increments in       frequency, and so the total number of markings around a fully used dial or       351mm would be 117, not 6,000, but then maybe I have a metal picture quite       different from what a photo of        your oscillator might show. Unfortunately, r.a.t does not allow images,       probably because if we were allowed, the porn pedlers would saturate this web       service with zillions of terrabites of cunts, arsoles, and megalitres of spoof       sprayed on ladies' faces.               So, to escape the excessive and banal sexual ways of the world at large we all       need our own website so that pictures of oscillators can be displayed with       minimal interference.              I also like a frequency dial to have equal distance between octaves of F.       In my last effort with a 1H-1MHz WB oscilator, the F is controlled with a 12       pos switch for 12 F per decade, based on these numbers, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 2.0,       2.5, 3.2, 3.9, 4.7, 5.6, 6.8, 8.2, 10.0.       Now this seems awkward, because there are hardly any whole number F stops. But       why do ppl insist we have convenient whole numbers? Well, its because much in       electronics varies according to a logarithmic rate, and once anyone adopts the       thinking behind        Standard Resistance Values, then one begins to understand you don't need to       depend solely of linear scales at all. Minds of our recent ancestors gave       values some thought.        Standard R values are 1.0, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8, 2.2, 2.7, 3.3, 3.9, 5.6, 6.8, 8.2,       10.0. That's 12 values and sure you could use this number sequence instead of       my sequence. But I wanted at least 4 nearly close octaves, 1.0, 2.0, 3.9, 8.2       per decade, and if        you read a 6dB drop between 1kHz and 2kHz, then you immediately can suspect a       first order LPF.       So I have slightly adjusted my resistance values to get there.               Having a 24 position make-before-break switch would be better! Maybe DACT make       something suitable, but to get R values you start with a number just over 1.0       and then when that is multiplied by itself 23 times consecutively, the total       of 24 numbers are        used as factors for the R value that gives the lowest F and the 24 number       should give 10 times the lowest R value. Then you have to carefully series or       parallel R to get within 1% of the R values. Its all a lot of work.               But consider a well made dial with 12 marked stops on the F I have suggested.       Its not difficult to place additional dial marks at say 0.1 or 0.2 or 0.5       increments and highlight Whole Numbers with a longer marking, and this takes       the guess work out of reading the dial. But with ONLY 12 F per decade range,       you don't need to know any        other number than I've suggested to plot a response, and you just have a sheet       of paper with all F marked along a LOGARITHMIC sacle where magically, all my       numbers appear about EQUALLY spaced, and much less than an octave apart so a       reponse graph for 1Hz        to 1MHz is a sequence of up to 72 dots, although some repeat at 1 & 10 so       actually 66 dots are used, and when the dots are joined you get a smooth       enough curve. You know what F you have by just reading the number on the dial.              But a variable cap does not have an exactly equal dial spacing as I have, and       a circular dial or sliding horizontal scale like a radio set must be       calibrated according to the F achieved when the unit is properly adjusted and       the dial will only suit that        tuning cap and no other. Every time you use such a thing you never repeat       exactly the same F, and just what F you do get strains your eyes to       interpolate what you have. An F meter is a godsend for those who don't trust       the dials or F stops with a switch.        My F meter is a 1Hz to 50Mhz kit I built about 15 years ago, I got fed up with       guesswork, especially when using a function gene with all chips inside and       with a crummy dial F control where markings could be 20% in error.               But today, I tested the tube stages I have created around a phase change       network with 3 x R and 3 gang tuning cap each 30pF to 400pF. Well, I was most       dissapointed. The darn thing was far more critical to adjust than anyone       online has described, and the        F stability was approaching a theremin. At all F above 50kHz, making voltage       readings stopped oscillations. The NFB and PFB had to be ever so carefully       adjusted, and a full decade F variation was impossible.       It was similar when I changed R from 3 x 1k5 to 3 x 150k.        So, the more I experiment with phase shift oscillator, the more difficulties       arrise to be solved, and I think that explains why the Wien Bridge oscillator       reigns supreme because it can be made to work so much more easily and with       less parts.        The fundemental problem with a phase shift oscillator is that the voltage       obtained after the 3 x RC H-pass sections is one that rises in amplitude id F       goes a little lower, and falls if F goes a little higher. Now this is a far       more difficult starting        premise than if you have a wien bridge because at F0, the network output       either side becomes lower. and at Fo, the is 0 degrees of phase shift, and at       all F the ratio of Vo to Vin = 1/3. Then you can have a flat response more       easily, and with a NFB        network using a j-fet or LDR as a variable R to ensure the oscillator Vo       remains at a constant level.              The LC oscillator for all F above 50kHz is a good option because L does not       vary much and nor does the F value of a tuning cap. The LC has a higher Q than       any RC arrangement, unless you have a twin T RC network or bridged T RC network              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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