XPost: alt.home.repair   
   From: xenolith@optusnet.com.au   
      
   On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:   
   > On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:   
   >>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:   
   >>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in   
   >>>>>>>>> Houston   
   >>>>>>>>> TX  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> micky wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is   
   >>>>>>>>>>> driving the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and   
   >>>>>>>>>>> today, for   
   >>>>>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine   
   >>>>>>>>>>> went briefly   
   >>>>>>>>>>> to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was at   
   >>>>>>>>>>> 5000 and   
   >>>>>>>>>>> even longer at 4500.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.   
   >>>>>>>>>> It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a   
   >>>>>>>>>> piston rod   
   >>>>>>>>>> destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person who   
   >>>>>>>>>> installed a   
   >>>>>>>>>> used engine and ended up with a nice car.   
   >>>>>>>>>  So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?   
   >>>>>>>>>  Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would   
   >>>>>>>>> think you   
   >>>>>>>>> came close to the redline even less time than I have!!   
   >>>>>>>>>  This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only 9000   
   >>>>>>>>> miles on   
   >>>>>>>>> it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, but   
   >>>>>>>>> regardless,   
   >>>>>>>>> I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than   
   >>>>>>>>> 3rd gear   
   >>>>>>>>> and rely on the brakes for anything more.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I   
   >>>>>>>> approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a   
   >>>>>>>> lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.   
   >>>>>>>  Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes   
   >>>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> He was right.   
   >>>>>  No he was not when you change down before there will be any red   
   >>>>> lining.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.   
   >>>>>  But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle.   
   >>>>>  That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch.   
   >>>> If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to   
   >>>> re-learn how to drive.   
   >   
   >>>  We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend   
   >>> steep hills.   
   >   
   >> No,   
   >   
   > Fraid so.   
   >   
   >> *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the   
   >> service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a   
   >> hill, that's what the service brakes are for.   
   >   
   > Wrong with a long steep descent.   
      
   You slow down *before* you begin your descent. Once into the descent at   
   an *appropriate speed*, you only use the service brakes to maintain the   
   rate of descent, the engine braking taking care of the rest. It's   
   obvious you have never driven trucks.   
   >   
   >> What you can, and should,  do is use engine  brakingto maintain a   
   >> steady speed down a steep hill.   
   >   
   > Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.   
      
   Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.   
   >   
   >> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat   
   >   
   > What I said long ago.   
   >   
   >> and  that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.   
   >   
   > Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent goes for.   
      
   Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the descent; how   
   you manage your speed, both when entering and during the descent.   
   >   
   >> If  needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional   
   >> application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is   
   >> required to maintain a steady speed.   
   >   
   > No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.   
      
   Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or, for that matter, any   
   heavy vehicle.   
   >   
   >> That way you neither damage your engine   
   >   
   > You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,   
   > just don't exceed the redline.   
   >   
   >> or needlessly  overheat the service brakes.   
   >   
   > What I said long ago.   
   >   
   >>>>>> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather   
   >>>>>> than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills   
   >>>>>> is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway,   
   >>>>>> definitely better than over-reving.   
   >   
   >>>>>  But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.   
      
      
   --   
   Xeno   
      
      
   Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.   
          (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
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